Rise of the Dictators 2

[Alcibaides]

Damn those rules are complicated!

Britain and France must go to war with Germany if it attacks Poland. Any other country that subsequently attacks Poland can do so without
providing a Casus Belli (IE The USSR or the Dictatorships).

Are you saying that Britain and France have to start a war with Germany if they invade Poland? Even if they feel they are not ready they must declare war?

The two examples you gave (the USSR and the Dictatorships) do not need a Cassus Belli to attack any nation right? So why did you use them as an example for Poland, surely they can invade Poland whenever they want??

Its just confusing.....

[Civilionaut]

Civi, lies die Regeln und wenn du sie nicht verstehst, vertrau McMonkey. Der ist Szenarioersteller und gibt sich redlich Mühe, unparteilich zu sein.

hab ich doch, oder?

39,153 ist Stadtbereich von Gibraltar, kann doch nicht sein, daß meine oder die Schiffe der Allierten dort versenkt werden

[Historical Atze]

Oder ist immer gut...
Es kann sehr wohl sein, wenn die Regeln es hergeben. Dort steht nämlich nix von irgendwelchen Stadtbereichen, die auch reichlich interpretationswürdig sind, sondern von einem nicht interpretierbaren Felderbereich rund um Spanien. Tut mir ja sehr leid, ist aber halt so ...

[Cobra]

Ja, war mein Fehler...

[McMonkey]

RE: Gibraltar
Thanks for understanding Cobra The rule clearly says that any enemy ship within two squares of the Spanish coast is a legitimate target. If you don't want to risk your ships being sunk then be careful when sailing around Spain. We will have to let this move stand as those were the rules!

I see Civi''s argument and I am willing to add an extra line to the rules stating that any BRITISH ships within one square of Gibraltar are safe from attack. This means that the British Navy can block the Straits of Gibraltar without Nationalist Spain being able to sink them. Obviously if Britain blocks the Straits then no Russian, French, Italian or Romanian merchant ships can exit to go to New York!

@Alcibaides
I don't think the rules are that complicated if you consider them one at a time. There is a lot of them altogether, but if you check the house rules for each country effected by your strategy I think you can make sense of them!

Britain and France both have an Alliance with Poland and have to honor that ready or not, just as they did in 1939. Historically they decided they were not ready to go to war over Austria or Czechoslovakia, even though they were in a much better position to do so militarily, and they appeased Hitler at Munich. In this scenario they can choose to make a stand over these countries, but once Poland is attacked there is no way to avoid war!

I need to re-word the sentence about other countries. What I mean is that if for, arguments sake, Germany invades Poland the Allies have to declare war on Germany. If the USSR then decides to take eastern Poland and Hungary takes a Polish city they do not give the French and British a Casus Belli! This is what happened historically and it makes sense to me in the Game. After all, if Britain and France have just gone to war with Germany then the last thing they need to do is be forced to declare war on the USSR too.

If on the other hand the USSR or the Dictatorships invade Poland before the Germans then the French and British have to declare war on them as they have an Alliance with Poland!

I know the rules are complex but they are designed to guide the game in a historically feasible, but alternative road

I have also made an amendment to the rules for Yugoslavia!

@@YUGOSLAVIA
An attack on Yugoslavia gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

[Civilionaut]

...
I see Civi''s argument and I am willing to add an extra line to the rules

thanks McMonkey
then i think: britische Einheiten auf zu Gibraltar gehörenden Land- und Seefeldern sind ausgenommen

[McMonkey]

-----------
HOUSE RULES
-----------

- PLAY AS HOTSEAT GAME

- TO USE CHEAT MENU CHANGE .HOT FILE TO .SAV, OPEN SAVE GAME AND USE CHEAT MENU, SAVE GAME, RENAME FILE TO .HOT, ADD OTHER PLAYERS BACK

(CONTROL+J).

- DIPLOMATIC HOUSE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED. IF THERE IS A DISAGREEMENT THE NOMINATED MODERATOR WILL HAVE THE FINAL SAY!

- NO AIR PROTECTED UNIT STACKS.

- NO ROAD, AIRBASE OR STACKABLE TERRAIN PILLAGING.

- NO SELLING OF FORTIFICATIONS. IF THEY ARE DESTROYED UPON CAPTURING A CITY THEY MUST BE REBUILT IMMEDIATELY (COST 0!)

- NO TRADING WITH ENEMY CITIES. TRADE EMBARGOS MUST BE RESPECTED.

- NO BLACK CLICKING. STACK SIZE CHECKING IS OK.

- NO TECH TRADING. UNITS, CITIES AND MONEY CAN BE TRADED.

- NO BRIBING ENEMY CITIES OR UNITS.

- NO GOVERNMENT SWITCHING.

- NO BUILDING OF NEW CITIES, ONLY RE-FOUNDING DESTROYED ONES IS ALLOWED.

- NO SHIP CHAINING OR RE-HOMING OF TRADE UNITS (EXCEPT EVENT GENERATED ONES BELONGING TO THE USA).

- AFTER CAPTURING A CITY V1 ROCKETS ARE OFTEN PRODUCED. PLEASE SWAP PRODUCTION!

- DO NOT BLOCK WATERWAYS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO YOUR NATION UNLESS YOU ARE AT WAR (IE STRATES OF GIBRALTAR, DARDANELLES ETC...).

- SNEAK ATTACKS ARE ALLOWED, AND ENCOURAGED!

------------------
GLOSSARY OF TERMS:
------------------

CASUS BELLI:

A valid pretext for a declaration of war. A sustained violation of territory can be used as a Casus Belli if the offending nation refuses to

withdraw.

Once a nation has a Casus Belli they must either declare war immediately or issue an ultimatum for that must be responded to the following

turn.

A Casus Belli cannot be carried on beyond the one turn ultimatum period.

If a nation does not make use of the Casus Belli to declare war or issue an ultimatum straight away then the opportunity is lost.

The Democracies will have to decide when to appease the Tyrants and when to make a stand!

Once you have gone to war with a nation once a new Casus Belli is not required to declare war again. This means that Ceasefires are possible.

@@GERMANY
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

@@USSR
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on the Soviet Union gives Britain and France a Casus Belli.

@@ROMANIA/HUNGARY/BULGARIA
Do not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria act as one nation (IE One cannot go to war while another stays neutral!)

Run as a separate entity from the other Dictatorships (Finland and Nationalist Spain).

@@FINLAND
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Run as a separate entity from the other Dictatorships.

@@SPAIN
SPAIN (UNDER NATIONALIST CONTROL - IE AFTER CIVIL WAR)
------------------------------------------------------

Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Run as a separate entity from the other Dictatorships.

SPAIN (UNDER REPUBLICAN CONTROL - IE AFTER CIVIL WAR)
-----------------------------------------------------

Must have a Casus Belli to declare war.

Run as a separate entity from the USSR.

An attack on Republican Spain (once they have won the Civil War) gives America, Britain and France a Casus Belli.

SPANISH CIVIL WAR (The Spanish Civil War is like a scenario within a scenario and has its own special rules)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Victory in the Civil War is achieved when one side wipes out the other completely. Once one side has won the war these special rules finish.

External nations can support either side economically or militarily by gifting money or units via the cheat menu.

External nations cannot intervene directly in Spain until the Civil War is over.

Units landed by sea can only do so within two squares of a friendly port city and they must be transferred on the receiving players following

turn.

Air units can only be transferred adjacent to a friendly city and they must be transferred on the receiving players following turn.

When the receiving player takes over gifted units they can be put into action straight away.

Any foreign units within two squares of the Spanish coast (Including the Balearic Islands and the city of Ceuta but not all of Spanish

Morocco!) can be attacked without causing a diplomatic incident.

Any BRITISH ships within one square of Gibraltar are safe from attack. This means that the British Navy can block the Straits of Gibraltar

without Nationalist Spain being able to sink them. obviously blocking the Straits might not make Britain popular with traders in the

Mediterranean!

Foreign powers can hand over units at the airfield on the Balearic Islands as long as the airbase is occupied by the nation they are

supporting.

If you don't want your ships sunk or your aircraft shot down then steer clear of Spain!

Ships or aircraft more than two squares from Spain must not be blocked or attacked.

French and Portuguese territory must not be violated by either side!

@@USA
Must have a Casus Belli to declare war until December 1941 (date of Pearl Harbour). After this date it may declare war without one.

The US can gift units to friendly nations before December 1941.

An attack on Britain or France is a valid Casus Belli. If Britain or France are the ones who declare war (due to Casus Belli) the USA will

have to wait until Pearl Harbour!

The USA cannot declare war on Britain, Republican France or the Neutrals. The USA can declare war on Vichy France.

America can re-home the event generated trade units which start with no home city.

@@BRITAIN
Must have Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack of Britain gives France a Casus Belli.

Britain may activate its alliance with France when at war.

Allied to France, Belgium and Poland.

@@ITALY
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

If the Allies capture Sicily Germany may occupy any Italian city they wish. The Italian player must co-operate fully and promptly.

This does not mean they need to surrender, but if Germany says it wants to occupy a city then Italy must let it!

The exception to this rule is if Italy changes sides to the Allies, in which case the Germans must take the Italian cities by force.

@@FRANCE
France must have a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on France gives Britain a valid Casus Belli.

France may activate its alliance with Britain when at war.

Allied to Czechoslovakia and Poland.

May sign a military alliance with Romania/Bulgaria/Hungary. A subsequent attack on these nations would give France a Casus Belli.

VICHY FRANCE
------------

If Germany captures Paris and five other Metropolitan cities the French government must become a puppet state.

If Germany decides to negotiate more lenient terms that is up to them, otherwise the settlement is:

1, Upon the capture of Paris and five other cities the French must cease resistance.

2, France must hand over control of all Metropolitan French cities bar Limoges, Toulouse, Lyon, Marseilles, Toulon, Nice and Corsica.

3, France must disband all army and air force units in Metropolitan France bar three ground units in each Vichy city. If they want to they

can hand over units to German control.

4, No military units can be built in Metropolitan cities until the Free French clause (see #8).

5, France must resist any Allied attempts to take over Vichy territory in Metropolitan France, North Africa or the Levant.

6, The French fleet must either hand over its ships to the Germans or sail to Toulon or colonial ports.

7, If Germany wishes to occupy Tunis the French must hand over the city even if this means disbanding of troops homed there!

8, The French will be freed from these constraints if the Allies liberate Casablanca, Algiers and Oran. The Vichy government can either

choose to join the Allied side again or continue to work with Germany.

9, If at this point the Vichy government decide to become the Free French then Germany can occupy the remainder of the Metropolitan cities

(Inc Corsica).

10, It is up to the Allies if they hand back control of any ex-French cities to the Free French. Should cause some realistic tension between

De Galle and the Allied leaders!

@@AUSTRIA
Anscluss between Germany and Austria gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on Austria by Italy gives Britain and France a Casus Belli for war.

@@CZECHOSLOVAKIA
An attack on Czechoslovakia gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@SLOVAKIA
If Germany occupies Czechoslovakia (Prague/Pilsen/Brno) then the Dictatorships can occupy Slovakia without giving France and Britain a Casus

Belli.

@@YUGOSLAVIA
An attack on Yugoslavia gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@BALTIC STATES
In the Soviet sphere of influence. The USSR has a free hand in the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

@@ALBANIA
In the Italian sphere of influence. The Italians have a free hand in Albania.

@@GREECE
An attack on Greece gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

Britain can intervene and put troops on Greek territory if it feels that Greece is threatened. This must be declared one turn in advance!

Greek cities cannot be occupied by the British but they can be liberated from foreign aggressors.

@@POLAND
Britain and France must declare war on any country that attacks Poland. This changes if Germany attacks first!

Britain and France must go to war with Germany if it attacks Poland. Any other country that attacks Poland after Germany can do so without

providing a Casus Belli to the British and French. For example the USSR could occupy eastern Poland after the Germans invade without risking

a war with Britain and France!

@@TURKEY
Britain and France must go to war with ANY country that attacks Turkey. If this should be the USSR then Britain and France can only negotiate

peace when all Turkish cities are vacated by the enemy (IE cheated back to the Independents) or have been liberated by the Franco-British.

@@NORWAY
An attack on Norway gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

Britain and France can intervene and put troops on Norwegian territory if it feels that Norway is threatened. This must be declared one turn

in advance!

Norwegian cities cannot be occupied by the Franco-British but they can be liberated from foreign aggressors.

@@HOLLAND
An attack on Holland gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@BELGIUM
An attack on Belgium gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

If Germany violates Belgian neutrality France and Britain can deploy troops on Belgian territory.

@@DENMARK
An attack on Denmark gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@SWITZERLAND
Switzerland is neutral and must not be attacked!

@@PORTUGAL
Portugal is neutral and must not be attacked!

@@SWEDEN
Sweden is neutral and must not be attacked! This also means foreign traders cannot be attacked on Swedish territory!

[Alcibaides]

By the way, if I read the rules correctly Republican Spain must stay neutral in any WW II scenario unless a nation attacks their territory. Is that correct?

If so is that fair and realistic? Would the Republic of Spain (if they had won the civil war) not want to assist the Allies that had helped them during their Civil War? Or maybe they would have been so weakened by the civil war that they would not be able to help out, but even if this was the case, they would have had the choice......

[Historical Atze]

Franco didn't help the Fascists who helped him in reality. Maybe the Republicans would have done otherwise but I do not know. Well in fact I really doubt that the Republicans would have helped the Allies as they hadn't intervened in the Civil War but if they on their side had done this ... I don't know.

What I mean is that it is perfectly realistic to assume that the Spanish Republic wouldn't help the Allies. If it has to be that way is something I do not know.

[McMonkey]

Good point Alcibaides. Historically Spain was crippled by the Civil War and it took many years to recover. Franco avoided German plans for an attack on Gibraltar and sent only a Division of troops to Russia and these may well have been people he would rather have out of the country anyway (don't quote me on that mind!). I cannot see the Republicans doing much to help the western powers and even if they had been willing to help Russia they were a long way away. If anything I can only see the Republicans descending into fractious power struggles as the different political groups tried to gain power over the new Spain.

In game terms victory is more advantageous for the Axis as they may be able to use Spain to attack the Rock and its "Lighthouse" wonder. It would also cause France to have to look over her shoulder. For the Communists a Red Spain would be a financial boost and would allow trade to carry on with the profitable US markets even if the USSR was cut off.

We will have to see how things play out in this game and discuss it at the end. I am willing to consider making changes for future games but I think we should carry on with the rules we have now and see how things go

[Alcibaides]

We will have to see how things play out in this game and discuss it at the end. I am willing to consider making changes for future games but I think we should carry on with the rules we have now and see how things go

Sounds good to me.

Oh by the way, I assume that once a nation states that they are supporting one side, they are open to be attacked by any of the other side's allies right?

I.e. lets say that Germany and Italy have started a war with Britain. Then Hungary announces it will asist Britain and invades Germany, that means that Hungary can expect to be attacked by Italy too? This seems pretty obvious but i just want to confirm.

[Historical Atze]

Yes, I would say so but I think that Italy might also chose not to intervene.

[McMonkey]

@Alcibaides
That seems perfectly logical to me. I will add words to that effect to the house rules after I have gone through them with a fine toothed comb to check it does not contradict itself somewhere

"If a nation goes to war with one of your publicly stated allies that equals a Casus Belli!"

I hope the German only speakers are OK with these complex rules. Maybe it would be possible for a kind person to translate them once we have agreed on a final version?

Any other amendments before I post the up to date House Rules/Diplomacy and Describe files?

[Sephiroth]

I hope the German only speakers are OK with these complex rules. Maybe it would be possible for a kind person to translate them once we have agreed on a final version?

I might find time for that the next weeks. As I plan to perhaps open a second Rise of the dictators PBEM with some friends (and of course other guests from here) at Civforum, this work of translation would be a good study of the complex rules, too

[McMonkey]

That would be great if you could Sephi. It seems a bit unfair on the German speakers as they may miss opportunities due to loss of meaning in translation.

Before you start a new game let me know and I will upload an updated version of the game with known bugs fixed on the Scenario League for players to download. I am happy to moderate for you if needed

In the meantime here is the updated files. I have combined the Diplomacy and House Rules documents into one text file. I have also put the house rules and glossary in the Describe file. You can access this info in the game itself by going to Game Concepts in the Civilopedia.