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Thema: Ideen und Ergänzungen

  1. #1
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Ideen und Ergänzungen

    Die Threadüberschirft sagt alles...
    Geändert von Monaldinio (29. August 2012 um 22:30 Uhr)
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

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  2. #2
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter Beitrag anzeigen
    Hey Monaldinho, I’ve playing the latest version, and I got some stuff to say. Its long, though:

    1. Is there any way to get rid of those New Factions that aren’t supposed to be there? I like my SMAC pure without fan factions, thanks. By the way, getting rid of these out-of-nowhere factions forever is also not a bad idea.

    2. The intro has a typo. “You now shape the destiny of your X faction, which has just a CONFLICT ON CHIRON.” I think what you meant is something akin to: “Which has just engaged in a CONFLICT ON CHIRON.”

    3. I’m no professional writer, and English is my second language (glorious Portuguese is my first, of course), but I could write some datalink entries for you. I think my English is good enough not to sound bad or ridiculous. I would be glad to help.

    4. Factions still lack disadvantages, I remember you asked me for suggestions some months back, here’s some, I hope you like them:

    Cybernetic Consciousness:
    - Slower growth (has trouble grasping normal reproduction due to their cold, cybernetic nature)

    Cult of Planet:
    - Less general production, say, 25% (anti-polution to the max, etc)
    - Less trade, say, 20% (anti-materialist and with ascetic tendencies, doesn’t care for money besides how much that money can help the cause of the Cult. Also, the Cult is considered weird and dangerous by other factions, so most factions don’t like to trade with them, even the Morganites)

    Data Angels:
    - Minus happiness, say, 20% extra (Semi-anarchic society that doesn’t like governmental control. Government has a harder time controlling people)
    - Perhaps a more drawn-out period of anarchy? The Data Angels are a very free society, they would probably spend a good time debating the change to their society, which may drag down necessary changes.

    Free Drones:
    - Less XP points (to simulate the fact the Free Drone movement is made of Drones, therefore people of lower classes that wouldn’t be trusted to command armies, which means their military is essentially composed by a bunch of NCOs and outcast Junior Officers that sympathized with the Free Drone cause. The “Human Wave Attack” mentality only makes it worse. Think the army of the French revolution before the competent commanders took over but after other Europeans changed tactics to fight their numbers)
    - Less research points, say, 20% or 15%. (once again, a problem from their origins. They’re essentially a faction made of drones, the uneducated and often oppressed lower-class of menial laborers. Not many scientists amongst them, after all, what scientists would associate with a bunch of revolutionary menial laborers?)
    - Perhaps some sort of diplomatic penalty? The Free Drones would probably be seen in Chiron something akin to how everyone saw Revolutionary France, Maoist China or the USSR – A bunch of crazy, dangerous revolutionaries that consort and infiltrate the lower classes in their dangerous, possibly blood-drenched revolution.

    Gaians:
    - Unsure, but the Gaians were pacifists and libertarians, they should get penalties at controlling their society and fighting wars.

    Hive:
    - Unsure, but I’m sure they have TOO MANY MILITARY BONUSES. Seriously, take some out.
    - A good idea is to reduce their energy trade, the Hive is a very authoritarian faction and probably desires self-sufficiency anyway. Perhaps a energy penalty to make sure they won’t care about the first penalty just because they’re using Autarky.

    Believers:
    - -25% research reduction seems like a good penalty. (not because RELIJIUS PEPLE AR DUMB, but because they have a very careful approach to science and its potential for oppression and jeopardy to the human race. Miriam and her people no Luddites, Luddites don’t travel in starships to other stars.)

    Caretakers and Usurpers:
    - Did they even had disadvantages in the original game? From what I remember, they were SUPPOSED to be cheesy.

    Morganites:
    - Unsure, probably some base upkeep penalty (all those luxuries).

    Pirates:
    - Unsure, perhaps a diplomatic (besides their usual non-membership on council) or a small growth penalty.

    Spartans:
    - Slower industry?
    - Perhaps more expensive military upkeep? (got to keep those elite troops well-paid, properly armed and fed)

    Peacekeepers:
    - A extra distance penalty to base upkeep? (simulates corruption and bureocracy)

    University:
    - Extra drones, of course.

    Bear in mind I don’t know what are the limits of CivIV modding, so if my suggestions seem silly or impossible, don’t think I’m crazy, I just never modded anything.

    5. What about some way for the Pirates to be recruited by one faction to prey on another, like Privateers? Maybe a spy action one can do against a faction if he’s friendly to the pirates, with the results that the affected city or faction loses trade route energy coming though the water. Of course, this should also give money to both the contracting faction and the Pirates. Privateering is profitable, ask the English.

    6. A idea which I call “Atrocity System”. What is the atrocity System? The Atrocity system is a idea based on atrocities in SMAC, combined with the infamy systems of Paradox games. Essentially, the Atrocity system serves to make factions (especially the player) be on their guard about their actions, and make their conquests slower.

    So here’s a example of things that heighten the Atrocity count:

    Nerve-Stappling (unsure how to add it to cities, maybe having a unit with the Nerve Staple promotion makes it increase slowly, so having lots of cities full of nerve staples result in atrocity rising faster than you can make it go down).

    Battles (little raises, though)

    Occupying a city (medium raise. This is to simulate oppression, rape ‘n plunder and foreign fear at enemy warmongering)

    Razed Cities (BIG raise, the bigger the city the worse the atrocity point increase. This might mean he’s not afraid of extermination and even genocide, which won’t make other factions endeared to him)

    Attacks using hidden nationality units (small, but can sting)

    Destroying a faction (HUGE raise, makes everyone else afraid of what the player can do next)

    Pillaging (small)

    General probe team actions (the bigger, the worse)

    Planet Buster attacks (I’m thinking one or two for immediate war on everyone else)

    Atrocity Count 0-10: Normal situation. Faction is considered ok or at least keeps their evil inside their borders.

    10-20: Trade sanctions (light). Faction is considerate a little rogue and other leaders should be wary.

    20-30: Trade sanctions (severe), worsened relations with factions that respect human rights and freedom (Peacekeepers, Gaians, Data Angels). Faction is considered as outcast and dangerous. The U.N can call a intervention against this Faction.

    30-40: A U.N Intervention Vote is called immediately. Total trade sanctions, relations worsen with factions that respect individual freedom and independence (Morganites, Spartans, University). Faction is considered rogue and out of hand.

    40-50: Faction is considered totally rogue and totally untrustworthy. Everyone declares war.

    My idea is that factions that go randomly pillaging, razing cities, conquering factions wholesale, razing towns, nerve-stappling, sabotaging with espionage and all that bad stuff should pay a price for it, depending on the degrees of its deeds. At best, it should face some

    How it would work: Ever play Europa Universalis 3? Essentially, the Infamy system (also know as Bad Boy) makes the player’s infamy rise every time he does something menacing, like declaring a unprovoked war, conquering enemy provinces, or even annexing a entire nation. It eventually goes down with time.
    Well, my idea is that it punishes the player who goes in crazy conquering sprees, razes lots of cities, attacks the enemy with lots of spies, etc. Essentially, playing rogue and dangerous has high rewards, but high risks. The player needs to be more subtle and be generally less crazy conquering, or else all other factions gang up on him and he may dies a horrible death.

    7. Can you get rid of units that don’t belong, like those weird Star Wars units?

    8. It is just me or most or all land plots are fresh water? I saw this before building Unity Hydroponics Bay.
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  3. #3
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    .....
    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter Beitrag anzeigen
    1. Didn't get to their tech level yet, but they're still on datalinks.

    Now for a LOT of feedback:

    Hey Monaldinho, I’ve been playing, and I wanted to post about some things I noticed, and some suggestions:

    About the newly-added Progenitor factions:

    1.The Progenitors are not at war with each other, at all. Hell, they’re downright friendly and its common for humans to be buddies with both sides. In fact, the aliens are very friendly to each other. They should be feeling UTTER HATRED at each other and fighting forever and ever, including humans who side with their foe. If my memory serves me right, the Progenitors hate each other’s guts so much they forgot the meaning of “neutral.”
    I remember from the expansion that the Caretakers and Usurpers constantly nagged the player (and other factions) about his/her peace with the other side, and if the player didn’t essentially declare immediate war on the other side, they declared war themselves on the player. There was none of this “neutrality” silliness with the Progenitor factions, and there shouldn’t be.
    Neutrality subverts the idea of Alien Crossfire – the whole concept of “humans caught up in a war between two alien factions that hate each other for millennia.” I remember sharing a continent with the two aliens was hell, you had to fight off alien hordes from one side or the other, sometimes both because other factions ALSO got angry at the aliens, and sometimes they were strong enough to keep you afraid of them/interested in continuing a alliance.
    That ins’t happening so far. I can be buddy with both alien factions at the same time, ok, maybe not buddies with both because its likely my civics/religion offends one or the other, but they don’t insta-fight me if I refuse to insta-fight their hated foes. Hell, in this game I’m playing, Santiago, Domai and even Deirdre nagged me dozens of times to attack Santiago/Domai in their little eternal blood feud, but Conqueror Marr never sent me a message telling me he wants me to stop co-operating with their blood enemies, the Caretakers. Hell, they’re not even fighting each other, Marr actually holds a protectorate over H’minee. There’s so much wrong with the last sentence.


    2. Aliens can be offered Planetary Council seats. What the hell? Aliens shouldn’t enter the Planetary Council; it’s a human-only club for many reasons. For starters, any organization that included one or BOTH alien groups would be affected by their non-stop civil war. They’re aliens, they can barely be understood. They have no legitimacy as members of the Council, all who are in some way connected to the Unity. Despite their relative friendliness, both factions’ overall plan ends with a boot stomping on the face of the human race, forever.
    Definitively not Planetary Council material, these Progenitors. Perhaps a “Progenitor” council member civic the aliens are always stuck on? Non-member could also work.

    3. It’s a pity there’s no atrocities on the game so far, I loved how they encouraged you to be UTTER RUTHLESS fighting the aliens in SMAX. Human x Human and Alien x Alien wars were totally ruthless, with casual use of nerve gas pods, penalty-less base razing and large falls of population occurring at human-alien city transitions. Talk about total war!

    4. City-names used by both sets of aliens are repeated. So the Usurpers got a bunch of cities called Courage and the Caretakers got a lot of cities called Decision. I don’t think the Progenitors are supposed to be uncreative 

    5. Humans shouldn’t be able to talk with the aliens (and vice-versa) without research, like in SMAX. If I remember right, Progenitors had to research Social Psych and humans had to Research Progenitor Psych or something like that. Humans and aliens speaking each other’s languages out of nowhere is silly.

    6. The aliens talk normally. Their diplo-talk needs to be changed (IE copied from the original game, with some extra additions) to their weird and creepy “Subject: Answer” sentence structure.

    7. I haven’t reached that part of the game, but the Aliens shouldn’t enter the end-game Transcendence/Anti-Transcendence struggle like the human factions. They don’t fit because their aims are self-exclusive and every alien victory always involves a boot stomping on the face of the human race forever, one way or another.
    The Caretakers don’t want ANYONE doing any Transcendence, lest it fails, another Flowering happens and their civilization dies once again. The Usurpers want to transcend for themselves, they don’t want any silly humans reaching Godhood before them. Humans want to transcend, or not.* I’m unsure how they would fit in the traditional victory, and there needs to be a way to stop the Aliens from simply being stomped into the ground by the two end-game alliances.


    *SMAX hinted Transcendence has the danger of causing untold havoc in the form of a Planetary Flowering, it’s never specified what is it, but it seems to have almost destroyed Progenitor society in the past. Humans finding out from Progenitor data that there’s a immense risk Transcendence will cause untold devastation upon them is a very good reason for the end-game Transcendence struggle. This time, there’s no Unity for humanity to live on. More on that bellow.

    Diplomacy:

    1. I’m playing as Miriam (Miriam/Fundie/Power/Terraforming/Edenist, heck of a killer anti-planet combo) and I noticed I can’t get a protectorate over anybody because “making peace with your enemies is not possible for you.” I’m pretty sure this is being caused by the fact Cha Dawn is at war with me because I’m the biggest polluter at a whooping -9.74 Planet rating.
    This means I got a foe with a eternal (I don’t think anyone will surpass my immense anti-planet rating any day) vendetta against me, and he’s screwing my chances at getting a Protectorate. This could be annoying to any faction that is the biggest polluter (Cha Dawn attacks them until they stop or he dies) or to the aliens once they’re fixed so they’re forever at war with each other. Is there any way to get rid of the “making peace with your enemies is not possible for you” impediment to getting a Protectorate?

    2. I noticed one of the resources in the game is oil, though only on oceans. Its cannon there’s no Fossil Fuels in Chiron because the Planetmind’s ecological regulation of Chiron means super-efficient carbon recycling, so the ingredients for oil are never allowed to become oil. So, oil as a resource is cannon-breaking and it shouldn’t be there.


    Religion:

    1. No way of removing a religion? I find it silly to play factions like Believers or Hive and have no way of removing a religion I don’t like with some sort of, say, Inquisitor unit. Was that a oversight by the Planetfall devs (mwahahahahah, swallow that annoying religious minority, deal with it!), or actually intended?

    2. Why are religions still called religions? They don’t seem very religious to me. The only one that includes some sort of worship is the Voice of Planet, and that’s only radicals like Dawn’s crazies who worship Planet as a God. The others don’t worship anything. It would be much more correct to call them Ideologies or Philosophies.

    3. Its just me or most factions adopt Voice of Planet? In my current game, 11 factions are Voice of Planet, one is Edenist (me), two follow Ascetic Virtues, one follows Homo Superior and two factions are still unknown. (yes, even in the 2400s, weird). Is that related to the fact there are two Secret Projects (The Concordat and Dawn of Planet) spreading Voice of Planet?

    4. There’s some problem I just perceived, involving Religions and Aliens. In my current Miriam game, H’minee follows Ascetic Virtues and Marr follows Voice of Planet. The religions/ideologies as conceived are human constructs. The aliens may have their own equivalents, but the idea of aliens following human ideas is… strange, to say the least.
    Should the aliens follow the same religions as humans? Let’s see: Voice of Planet is all about more communication with the Planetmind and respect for the native environment. Seems to fits the Caretakers but they NEVER transcend and would actively destroy anyone who tries to reach Transcendence. The Usurpers seem to regard the Manifolds as merely means of reaching Godhood, they don’t seem to care about Planet as a environment or being, so they don’t see any reason to communicate with it, just use it for transcendence. VoP doesn’t fit them, it seems.
    Edenism doesn’t fit or doesn’t seem to fit the Progenitors. Edenism is the belief in re-creating Terra on Chiron though the means of terraformation, large-scale population growth and re-creation of the Earthly biosphere. There’s no evidence of the aliens ever having any interest in re-creating their native planets on Chiron. Marr needs Planet as it is so he and his faction turn into Gods, H’minee wants to keep Planet pristine and stop transcendence. That said, both factions (especially Usurpers) might see large-scale terraformation as necessary to achieve their goals IE grow a lot to crush their rivals.
    Ascetic Virtues is all about leading a disciplined, concentrated life in a hostile environment. The Progenitors come from a ultra-advanced star-faring civilization, and their own Planetfall sent them something akin to one or two millennia of technological advancement behind. Essentially, it would be like if two small cities from 2012 were sent to 12 AD technological levels, and to make it worse they’ve just landed on a hostile virgin planet, with primitive aliens included. I could see Ascetism becoming a way of life as both factions labor on, dreaming and yearning of the day they would develop the technology to call reinforcements and get off that primitive rock, or alternatively, transcend and become gods in the Usurpers’ case.
    Homo Superior is all about becoming better, either though trans-humanism, training or achieving a more rational and intelligent mind. The Usurpers seem pretty bent on becoming Gods though Transcendence, so trans-progenitorianism seems to fit them, but not the Caretakers. I don’t remember anything about the Caretakers that might make them more in-line with Homo Superior.

    So, Caretakers seems to be Voice of Planet (but without Transcendence), Usurpers seems to fit Homo Superior, Ascetic Virtues seem to fit both and Edenism seems unfit to both except on matters of Terraforming? Should the religion of the Progenitors be fixed (like the Cult) or should their religion be flexible? Or they should follow no religion? You (or the players) decide.

    Technology:


    1. Am I the only one who thinks the tech-tree needs to be fattened and re-arranged? For example, Orbital Engineering, Needlejets and Secrets of Alpha Centauri are pretty near to each other on the tech tree. From Biofuels and Doctrine: Air Power to Needlejets there’s something like three or four technological advances.
    The point is: The techtree seems weird, small and disjointed. Until the sixth row of technologies, it seems to be proceeding smoothly, then it goes crazy as we see Secrets of Alpha Centauri near Needlejets and Orbital Engineering after Secrets of Alpha Centauri, Gravships one tech after Needlejets, etc. Its like a big chunk of the mid-to-early end game of SMAC is missing. This is a big problem and I would suggest you to ask the Planetfall devs about it.

    2. Alien-crossfire techs and such are missing, things like Adaptable Economics and stuff. Granted, not all SMAC/SMAX techs have to be copied to Planetfall/Conflict on Chiron, but there needs to be some equivalent to them and the things that come from the, at least. For example, there were a lot of buildings in SMAX that made sea colonies more interesting.


    Others:

    1. You know what this mod needs? EVENTS! SMAC had its own events to shake up the game. Remember? Hercules’s (Alpha Centauri B, the second star of the binary system) translation making the native life increase and then decrease; communication problems due to solar flare making factions incommunicable from time to time; viral infections breaking out, etcetera. You could add more, but the key is remaining faithful to feel of the original game.

    2. I wonder if quests would fit the game. I like the idea of having to commit your faction to quests.

    3. The abilities Accuracy and Heavy Artillery do the same thing. The only difference is that Accuracy can be used by Orbital units, whereas Heavy Artillery cannot. This makes it quite silly to build mass drivers and other similar units and see two abilities that do the same thing.

    4. I never once saw Isles of the Deep transporting Mind Worms to attack me. As it is, they are just acting like visible, less predatorial Sealurks.

    Suggestions:

    1. Add economic victory. It was the ultimate peaceful builder strategy, and it would be very nice to see a remade economic victory in Conflict on Chiron. Wonder if any new twists could be brought from it.

    2. Increasing the game time. As it is, in huge maps with lots of islands and water there’s no enough time for factions to fill out the map because the increase of the Flowering counter, combined with the onslaught of native life from the seas screw up with expansion. The fact the tech tree is weird and incomplete makes the way things go and advance very weird. I think 2800 or even 3000 MY would be a nice end-date.

    3. Religions need some extra spice. Religion-specific buildings, Secret Projects, National Wonders and Units would improve the game immensely. Some suggestions taking the character of every religion in mind:

    Voice of Planet: I’m thinking units that fight better in natural environments, using the natural terrain of planet to their advantage and employing methods that allow them to stimulate the growth of xenofungus (remember the missile from SMAX?), attract native life to certain areas and even recruiting (hidden nationality?) eco-terrorists to fight against planet-unfriendly factions.

    Edenism: Units I’m unsure, perhaps units that help them against native life and planet-friendly factions. What kind of unit would help Edenist players to re-make Earth on Chiron? Buildings that help happiness, growth and productivity seem obvious here, perhaps more benefits to a eco-friendly yet anti-planet Edenist?. Edenism is all about re-making Earth on Chiron, growing and prospering on a newly-made Promised Land.

    Homo Superior: Homo Superior could get some extra enhanced units and buildings that involve the use of technology and logic to create better soldiers, better pilots, better scientists, better EVERYTHING. Of course, there should be some sort of price to their struggle to create Better Everything, perhaps a over-reliance on expensive equipment and dangerous genetics. Homo Superior is all about people becoming better though study and technology.

    Ascetic Virtues: Units in the form of cheaper, more easily replaceable units that allow one to live with meager yet more effective armies? Buildings that allow colonies to live in more hostile and meager conditions and make the population happier with less luxuries*? Essentially, Ascetic Virtues is all about doing more with less in order to survive.


    4. More unique units and buildings. I’ve been playing Miriam and I think its very strange to see Miriam employing InVitros, Genejack factories and other science-horrors.


    Also, I've done some changes in Unit Datalink entries, sending you the first ones as soon as possible.
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  4. #4
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Finde ich gut, dass CoC in Portugal angekommen ist!
    Scheint ein echter Kenner zu sein... ich hoffe ich verstehe alles richtig - mein Englisch ist recht mies, aber Verstehen geht zum Glück ganz gut. Da Du mich darum gebeten hast gebe ich meinen Senf dazu:



    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [A]About the newly-added Progenitor factions:

    1.The Progenitors are not at war with each other, at all. Hell, they’re downright friendly and its common for humans to be buddies with both sides. In fact, the aliens are very friendly to each other. They should be feeling UTTER HATRED at each other and fighting forever and ever, including humans who side with their foe. If my memory serves me right, the Progenitors hate each other’s guts so much they forgot the meaning of “neutral.”
    I remember from the expansion that the Caretakers and Usurpers constantly nagged the player (and other factions) about his/her peace with the other side, and if the player didn’t essentially declare immediate war on the other side, they declared war themselves on the player. There was none of this “neutrality” silliness with the Progenitor factions, and there shouldn’t be.
    Neutrality subverts the idea of Alien Crossfire – the whole concept of “humans caught up in a war between two alien factions that hate each other for millennia.” I remember sharing a continent with the two aliens was hell, you had to fight off alien hordes from one side or the other, sometimes both because other factions ALSO got angry at the aliens, and sometimes they were strong enough to keep you afraid of them/interested in continuing a alliance.
    That ins’t happening so far. I can be buddy with both alien factions at the same time, ok, maybe not buddies with both because its likely my civics/religion offends one or the other, but they don’t insta-fight me if I refuse to insta-fight their hated foes. Hell, in this game I’m playing, Santiago, Domai and even Deirdre nagged me dozens of times to attack Santiago/Domai in their little eternal blood feud, but Conqueror Marr never sent me a message telling me he wants me to stop co-operating with their blood enemies, the Caretakers. Hell, they’re not even fighting each other, Marr actually holds a protectorate over H’minee. There’s so much wrong with the last sentence.

    Zu A.1: Da hat er schon recht, aber was lässt sich davon wie umsetzen?


    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    2. Aliens can be offered Planetary Council seats. What the hell? Aliens shouldn’t enter the Planetary Council; it’s a human-only club for many reasons. For starters, any organization that included one or BOTH alien groups would be affected by their non-stop civil war. They’re aliens, they can barely be understood. They have no legitimacy as members of the Council, all who are in some way connected to the Unity. Despite their relative friendliness, both factions’ overall plan ends with a boot stomping on the face of the human race, forever.
    Definitively not Planetary Council material, these Progenitors. Perhaps a “Progenitor” council member civic the aliens are always stuck on? Non-member could also work.

    Zu A.2: Ich stimme zu.

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    3. It’s a pity there’s no atrocities on the game so far, I loved how they encouraged you to be UTTER RUTHLESS fighting the aliens in SMAX. Human x Human and Alien x Alien wars were totally ruthless, with casual use of nerve gas pods, penalty-less base razing and large falls of population occurring at human-alien city transitions. Talk about total war!

    Zu A.3: Hätte was, doch wie umsetzen; Balancing wird knifflig?

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    4. City-names used by both sets of aliens are repeated. So the Usurpers got a bunch of cities called Courage and the Caretakers got a lot of cities called Decision. I don’t think the Progenitors are supposed to be uncreative

    Zu A.4: Trivial - Ja, Städtenamen hinterlegen und fertig.

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    5. Humans shouldn’t be able to talk with the aliens (and vice-versa) without research, like in SMAX. If I remember right, Progenitors had to research Social Psych and humans had to Research Progenitor Psych or something like that. Humans and aliens speaking each other’s languages out of nowhere is silly.

    Zu A.5: Ja, allerdings würde ich keine neue Tech einführen. Mit Psonics kommt Cha-Dawn. Ich stelle mir ihn als typische Vorreiter diesbezüglich vor. Mit Erforschung von Affinity-Gen könnte dann eine erste Kommunikation möglich werden.

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    6. The aliens talk normally. Their diplo-talk needs to be changed (IE copied from the original game, with some extra additions) to their weird and creepy “Subject: Answer” sentence structure.

    Zu A.6: Ja, wäre schön.

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    7. I haven’t reached that part of the game, but the Aliens shouldn’t enter the end-game Transcendence/Anti-Transcendence struggle like the human factions. They don’t fit because their aims are self-exclusive and every alien victory always involves a boot stomping on the face of the human race forever, one way or another.
    The Caretakers don’t want ANYONE doing any Transcendence, lest it fails, another Flowering happens and their civilization dies once again. The Usurpers want to transcend for themselves, they don’t want any silly humans reaching Godhood before them. Humans want to transcend, or not.* I’m unsure how they would fit in the traditional victory, and there needs to be a way to stop the Aliens from simply being stomped into the ground by the two end-game alliances. *SMAX hinted Transcendence has the danger of causing untold havoc in the form of a Planetary Flowering, it’s never specified what is it, but it seems to have almost destroyed Progenitor society in the past. Humans finding out from Progenitor data that there’s a immense risk Transcendence will cause untold devastation upon them is a very good reason for the end-game Transcendence struggle. This time, there’s no Unity for humanity to live on. More on that bellow.

    Zu A.7: Die Einstellung von Caretaker und Usurper zur Transcendence finde ich sehr interessant. Echt? Ist das so?
    Wäre nett, brauche ich aber nicht. Spiel wird bei mir weit früher beendet.


    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [B] Diplomacy:

    1. I’m playing as Miriam (Miriam/Fundie/Power/Terraforming/Edenist, heck of a killer anti-planet combo) and I noticed I can’t get a protectorate over anybody because “making peace with your enemies is not possible for you.” I’m pretty sure this is being caused by the fact Cha Dawn is at war with me because I’m the biggest polluter at a whooping -9.74 Planet rating.
    This means I got a foe with a eternal (I don’t think anyone will surpass my immense anti-planet rating any day) vendetta against me, and he’s screwing my chances at getting a Protectorate. This could be annoying to any faction that is the biggest polluter (Cha Dawn attacks them until they stop or he dies) or to the aliens once they’re fixed so they’re forever at war with each other. Is there any way to get rid of the “making peace with your enemies is not possible for you” impediment to getting a Protectorate?

    2. I noticed one of the resources in the game is oil, though only on oceans. Its cannon there’s no Fossil Fuels in Chiron because the Planetmind’s ecological regulation of Chiron means super-efficient carbon recycling, so the ingredients for oil are never allowed to become oil. So, oil as a resource is cannon-breaking and it shouldn’t be there.


    Zu B.1: Wo kommt denn das “making peace with your enemies is not possible for you” her. Von Cha Dawn vs biggest polluter?
    Kann keine andere Fraktion zum Vasallen werden oder nur Concordat-Follower?

    Zu B.2: Hm, interessant! Dann muss Oil als Ressi auf der Karte wohl entfernt werden. "Super-efficient carbon recycling"? Aha, na gut, das Thema ist mir egal. Entscheide Du.
    Nur noch ein paar Gedanken dazu:
    Was mich bislang am Oil als Ressource gestört hat, ist dass es strategisch keine Rolle spielt: Ein und das war es. Aufgrund der Historie von uns Humans sollte Oil ein vorübergehende wichtige Schlüsselressource sein. Blaupausen zu diversen Anlagen und Maschinen können in den Datalinks jeder Fraktion mitgebracht worden sein. Aus SMAC kann ich mich an eine Tech erinnern, die "Synthisch Fossile Brennstoffe" hieß. Womit fahren denn in CoC Rover, F-APCs und erste Schiffe? Mit Solar? Haha, ich stelle mir gerade einen solarbetriebenen Panzer vor...

    Vielleicht koppelt man an die "Maitenance Bay", dass sie sofern bestimmte Ressourcen zur Verfügung stehen (z.B. wenigstens eine Algensorte oder sowas wie Raps, Sonnenblumen) eine Ressource Oil bereitstellt. Raps, Sonnenblumen o.ä. könnte man in Greenhouses oder Farmen "aufploppen" lassen. Alle Tier2 Vehikel sollten an Oil und ggf. mehr gekoppelt sein. Eine Entwicklungsstufe weiter gehts dann weiter auf Basis spaltbaren Material (Uran o.ä.) und zwei Forschungs-Stufen später auf sowas wie Silizium.


    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [C] Religion:

    1. No way of removing a religion? I find it silly to play factions like Believers or Hive and have no way of removing a religion I don’t like with some sort of, say, Inquisitor unit. Was that a oversight by the Planetfall devs (mwahahahahah, swallow that annoying religious minority, deal with it!), or actually intended?


    2. Why are religions still called religions? They don’t seem very religious to me. The only one that includes some sort of worship is the Voice of Planet, and that’s only radicals like Dawn’s crazies who worship Planet as a God. The others don’t worship anything. It would be much more correct to call them Ideologies or Philosophies.


    3. Its just me or most factions adopt Voice of Planet? In my current game, 11 factions are Voice of Planet, one is Edenist (me), two follow Ascetic Virtues, one follows Homo Superior and two factions are still unknown. (yes, even in the 2400s, weird). Is that related to the fact there are two Secret Projects (The Concordat and Dawn of Planet) spreading Voice of Planet?

    4. There’s some problem I just perceived, involving Religions and Aliens. In my current Miriam game, H’minee follows Ascetic Virtues and Marr follows Voice of Planet. The religions/ideologies as conceived are human constructs. The aliens may have their own equivalents, but the idea of aliens following human ideas is… strange, to say the least.
    Should the aliens follow the same religions as humans? Let’s see: Voice of Planet is all about more communication with the Planetmind and respect for the native environment. Seems to fits the Caretakers but they NEVER transcend and would actively destroy anyone who tries to reach Transcendence. The Usurpers seem to regard the Manifolds as merely means of reaching Godhood, they don’t seem to care about Planet as a environment or being, so they don’t see any reason to communicate with it, just use it for transcendence. VoP doesn’t fit them, it seems.
    Edenism doesn’t fit or doesn’t seem to fit the Progenitors. Edenism is the belief in re-creating Terra on Chiron though the means of terraformation, large-scale population growth and re-creation of the Earthly biosphere. There’s no evidence of the aliens ever having any interest in re-creating their native planets on Chiron. Marr needs Planet as it is so he and his faction turn into Gods, H’minee wants to keep Planet pristine and stop transcendence. That said, both factions (especially Usurpers) might see large-scale terraformation as necessary to achieve their goals IE grow a lot to crush their rivals.
    Ascetic Virtues is all about leading a disciplined, concentrated life in a hostile environment. The Progenitors come from a ultra-advanced star-faring civilization, and their own Planetfall sent them something akin to one or two millennia of technological advancement behind. Essentially, it would be like if two small cities from 2012 were sent to 12 AD technological levels, and to make it worse they’ve just landed on a hostile virgin planet, with primitive aliens included. I could see Ascetism becoming a way of life as both factions labor on, dreaming and yearning of the day they would develop the technology to call reinforcements and get off that primitive rock, or alternatively, transcend and become gods in the Usurpers’ case.
    Homo Superior is all about becoming better, either though trans-humanism, training or achieving a more rational and intelligent mind. The Usurpers seem pretty bent on becoming Gods though Transcendence, so trans-progenitorianism seems to fit them, but not the Caretakers. I don’t remember anything about the Caretakers that might make them more in-line with Homo Superior.


    So, Caretakers seems to be Voice of Planet (but without Transcendence), Usurpers seems to fit Homo Superior, Ascetic Virtues seem to fit both and Edenism seems unfit to both except on matters of Terraforming? Should the religion of the Progenitors be fixed (like the Cult) or should their religion be flexible? Or they should follow no religion? You (or the players) decide.



    Zu C.1:
    Sicher, man kann da viel machen. Insbesondere VoP vs Edenism.
    An Inquisitoren sehe ich aktuell keine Notwendigkeit und bitte keine separaten Inquisitoren. Man kann VoP und Edenism sich gegenseitig ausschließen lassen. VoP wird verbreitet => Edenism wird ausgetrieben o.s.ä..


    Zu C.2:
    Tja, ich frage mich warum man Religionen überhaupt jemals so nannte - es sind letztendlich nur Konfessionen.


    Zu C.3:
    Ja, das ist grundsätzlich so. Mein aktuelles Spiel ist ein Gegenbeispiel,jedoch ist es nicht repräsentativ.
    Voice of Planet ist grundsätzlich die erste erforschte Religion. Wenn dann auch noch "The-Concordat" sehr früh errichtet wird und alle Concordat-Mitglieder bei jeder Sitzung einen Acolyten erhalten ist die Dominanz nicht aufzuhalten.

    Mögliche Gegenmaßnahmen:
    Entdeckung von Voice of Planet eins nach hinten verlagern (zu Centauri-Empathy).
    "Spread-the-Voice-of-Planet" zwei nach hinten (zu Affinity-Gen)
    Das sollte ausreichen.


    Zu C.4:
    Seine Überlegungen versetzen mich in Erstaunen - im positiven Sinn! Warum nicht, das finde ich sehr inspirierend.
    Vlt sollte man Edenism nach vorne verlagern (zu Enviromental Economics). Es liegt in der Natur des Menschen, dass die meisten Menschen-Fraktion wie von der Erde bekannte Umstände schaffen wollen.






    So, jetzte mache ich erst einmal einen cut - keine freie Zeit mehr.
    Rest folgt ein andern mal.




    Achtung Spoiler:



    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [D] Technology:


    1. Am I the only one who thinks the tech-tree needs to be fattened and re-arranged? For example, Orbital Engineering, Needlejets and Secrets of Alpha Centauri are pretty near to each other on the tech tree. From Biofuels and Doctrine: Air Power to Needlejets there’s something like three or four technological advances.
    The point is: The techtree seems weird, small and disjointed. Until the sixth row of technologies, it seems to be proceeding smoothly, then it goes crazy as we see Secrets of Alpha Centauri near Needlejets and Orbital Engineering after Secrets of Alpha Centauri, Gravships one tech after Needlejets, etc. Its like a big chunk of the mid-to-early end game of SMAC is missing. This is a big problem and I would suggest you to ask the Planetfall devs about it.

    2. Alien-crossfire techs and such are missing, things like Adaptable Economics and stuff. Granted, not all SMAC/SMAX techs have to be copied to Planetfall/Conflict on Chiron, but there needs to be some equivalent to them and the things that come from the, at least. For example, there were a lot of buildings in SMAX that made sea colonies more interesting.





    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    Others:

    1. You know what this mod needs? EVENTS! SMAC had its own events to shake up the game. Remember? Hercules’s (Alpha Centauri B, the second star of the binary system) translation making the native life increase and then decrease; communication problems due to solar flare making factions incommunicable from time to time; viral infections breaking out, etcetera. You could add more, but the key is remaining faithful to feel of the original game.

    2. I wonder if quests would fit the game. I like the idea of having to commit your faction to quests.

    3. The abilities Accuracy and Heavy Artillery do the same thing. The only difference is that Accuracy can be used by Orbital units, whereas Heavy Artillery cannot. This makes it quite silly to build mass drivers and other similar units and see two abilities that do the same thing.

    4. I never once saw Isles of the Deep transporting Mind Worms to attack me. As it is, they are just acting like visible, less predatorial Sealurks.



    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    Suggestions:

    1. Add economic victory. It was the ultimate peaceful builder strategy, and it would be very nice to see a remade economic victory in Conflict on Chiron. Wonder if any new twists could be brought from it.

    2. Increasing the game time. As it is, in huge maps with lots of islands and water there’s no enough time for factions to fill out the map because the increase of the Flowering counter, combined with the onslaught of native life from the seas screw up with expansion. The fact the tech tree is weird and incomplete makes the way things go and advance very weird. I think 2800 or even 3000 MY would be a nice end-date.

    3. Religions need some extra spice. Religion-specific buildings, Secret Projects, National Wonders and Units would improve the game immensely. Some suggestions taking the character of every religion in mind:

    Voice of Planet: I’m thinking units that fight better in natural environments, using the natural terrain of planet to their advantage and employing methods that allow them to stimulate the growth of xenofungus (remember the missile from SMAX?), attract native life to certain areas and even recruiting (hidden nationality?) eco-terrorists to fight against planet-unfriendly factions.

    Edenism: Units I’m unsure, perhaps units that help them against native life and planet-friendly factions. What kind of unit would help Edenist players to re-make Earth on Chiron? Buildings that help happiness, growth and productivity seem obvious here, perhaps more benefits to a eco-friendly yet anti-planet Edenist?. Edenism is all about re-making Earth on Chiron, growing and prospering on a newly-made Promised Land.

    Homo Superior: Homo Superior could get some extra enhanced units and buildings that involve the use of technology and logic to create better soldiers, better pilots, better scientists, better EVERYTHING. Of course, there should be some sort of price to their struggle to create Better Everything, perhaps a over-reliance on expensive equipment and dangerous genetics. Homo Superior is all about people becoming better though study and technology.

    Ascetic Virtues: Units in the form of cheaper, more easily replaceable units that allow one to live with meager yet more effective armies? Buildings that allow colonies to live in more hostile and meager conditions and make the population happier with less luxuries*? Essentially, Ascetic Virtues is all about doing more with less in order to survive.


    4. More unique units and buildings. I’ve been playing Miriam and I think its very strange to see Miriam employing InVitros, Genejack factories and other science-horrors.
    Geändert von Skyvaheri (16. September 2012 um 15:38 Uhr)

  5. #5
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Weiter gehts:

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [D] Technology:


    1. Am I the only one who thinks the tech-tree needs to be fattened and re-arranged? For example, Orbital Engineering, Needlejets and Secrets of Alpha Centauri are pretty near to each other on the tech tree. From Biofuels and Doctrine: Air Power to Needlejets there’s something like three or four technological advances.
    The point is: The techtree seems weird, small and disjointed. Until the sixth row of technologies, it seems to be proceeding smoothly, then it goes crazy as we see Secrets of Alpha Centauri near Needlejets and Orbital Engineering after Secrets of Alpha Centauri, Gravships one tech after Needlejets, etc. Its like a big chunk of the mid-to-early end game of SMAC is missing. This is a big problem and I would suggest you to ask the Planetfall devs about it.

    2. Alien-crossfire techs and such are missing, things like Adaptable Economics and stuff. Granted, not all SMAC/SMAX techs have to be copied to Planetfall/Conflict on Chiron, but there needs to be some equivalent to them and the things that come from the, at least. For example, there were a lot of buildings in SMAX that made sea colonies more interesting.


    Zu D.1: Seine Dramatik erschließt sich mir nicht. Allerdings, wo ich es mir anschaue, könnten ein paar Einheiten verschoben werden:
    Der Thunderbold sollte weit nach vorne zu Doctrin Airpower und (!) Biofuel.
    Range 1 ist stark => vlt. nach hinten zu Mass Driver?!
    Hovertank und Dropship nach hinten zu Gravitonics
    Autonomic IMS hat eine coole Graphik, aber was soll man damit machen? (außer nicht bauen.)


    Zudem sollten wir die Forschungskosten überdenken:

    Zuerst steigen die Kosten jeweils um 100%. Dann verläuft die Steigerungsfunktion degressiv. Da allerdings die ab Mass Driver (4071) und Nanotubes (5881) Thermale Bohrlöcher freigeschaltet sind, boomt schlagartig die Forschung. Zum einen sollten wir den Output von Bohrlöchern um einen 1 und reduzieren, zum anderen die Techkosten erhöhen:

    140/282/565/1131/2262/4071/5881/7690/9274/13006/16965/21715
    Vorschlag: Erhöhung ab 5881 um 10-20%.


    Zu D.2: Is mir egal.




    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [E] Others:

    1. You know what this mod needs? EVENTS! SMAC had its own events to shake up the game. Remember? Hercules’s (Alpha Centauri B, the second star of the binary system) translation making the native life increase and then decrease; communication problems due to solar flare making factions incommunicable from time to time; viral infections breaking out, etcetera. You could add more, but the key is remaining faithful to feel of the original game.

    2. I wonder if quests would fit the game. I like the idea of having to commit your faction to quests.

    3. The abilities Accuracy and Heavy Artillery do the same thing. The only difference is that Accuracy can be used by Orbital units, whereas Heavy Artillery cannot. This makes it quite silly to build mass drivers and other similar units and see two abilities that do the same thing.

    4. I never once saw Isles of the Deep transporting Mind Worms to attack me. As it is, they are just acting like visible, less predatorial Sealurks.


    Zu E.1 und 2: Wäre toll, aber ich denke es gibt zuvor viele andere Baustellen.

    Zu E.3: Verstehe sein Problem nicht. Es gibt wichtigeres.

    Zu E.4: Sehe ich auch so!!!
    Problemlösung: Einfach zu den Fungal-See-Blooms Viren hinzufügen. Die KI sollte sie dann automatisch einladen und anlanden!





    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    [F] Suggestions:

    1. Add economic victory. It was the ultimate peaceful builder strategy, and it would be very nice to see a remade economic victory in Conflict on Chiron. Wonder if any new twists could be brought from it.

    2. Increasing the game time. As it is, in huge maps with lots of islands and water there’s no enough time for factions to fill out the map because the increase of the Flowering counter, combined with the onslaught of native life from the seas screw up with expansion. The fact the tech tree is weird and incomplete makes the way things go and advance very weird. I think 2800 or even 3000 MY would be a nice end-date.

    3. Religions need some extra spice. Religion-specific buildings, Secret Projects, National Wonders and Units would improve the game immensely. Some suggestions taking the character of every religion in mind:

    Voice of Planet: I’m thinking units that fight better in natural environments, using the natural terrain of planet to their advantage and employing methods that allow them to stimulate the growth of xenofungus (remember the missile from SMAX?), attract native life to certain areas and even recruiting (hidden nationality?) eco-terrorists to fight against planet-unfriendly factions.

    Edenism: Units I’m unsure, perhaps units that help them against native life and planet-friendly factions. What kind of unit would help Edenist players to re-make Earth on Chiron? Buildings that help happiness, growth and productivity seem obvious here, perhaps more benefits to a eco-friendly yet anti-planet Edenist?. Edenism is all about re-making Earth on Chiron, growing and prospering on a newly-made Promised Land.

    Homo Superior: Homo Superior could get some extra enhanced units and buildings that involve the use of technology and logic to create better soldiers, better pilots, better scientists, better EVERYTHING. Of course, there should be some sort of price to their struggle to create Better Everything, perhaps a over-reliance on expensive equipment and dangerous genetics. Homo Superior is all about people becoming better though study and technology.

    Ascetic Virtues: Units in the form of cheaper, more easily replaceable units that allow one to live with meager yet more effective armies? Buildings that allow colonies to live in more hostile and meager conditions and make the population happier with less luxuries*? Essentially, Ascetic Virtues is all about doing more with less in order to survive.


    4. More unique units and buildings. I’ve been playing Miriam and I think its very strange to see Miriam employing InVitros, Genejack factories and other science-horrors.


    Zu F.1 und 2: Meinetwegen, ja.

    Zu F.3: Brauchen wir das??? Ok, einige Ideen sind cool: Gimmee my Spice!!!
    Ich denke aber, es gibt für dieses Jahr bereits genug an CoC zu tun.

  6. #6
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Was sagst du zu den faction Penaltys ???
    Seine Vorschläge bezüglich der Fraktionen, weniger Forschung für die Believers ect...
    Also Post 2...
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  7. #7
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Oh-keeee zuerst die SMAC-Fraktionen:
    Ich setze meinen Senf in BLAU dazu:

    Zitat Zitat von Slaughter
    Gaians:
    - Unsure, but the Gaians were pacifists and libertarians, they should get penalties at controlling their society and fighting wars.
    Bei SMAC = Effiziensbonus, Planetenbonus, Moralmalus
    Bei CoC = So wie es ist, finde ich die Gaians sehr stark aber durchaus passend umgesetzt!


    Hive:
    - Unsure, but I’m sure they have TOO MANY MILITARY BONUSES. Seriously, take some out.
    - A good idea is to reduce their energy trade, the Hive is a very authoritarian faction and probably desires self-sufficiency anyway. Perhaps a energy penalty to make sure they won’t care about the first penalty just because they’re using Autarky.
    Nein, das Militär ist nicht zu stark. -20% Stärke ist schon heftig. The Hive ist eigentlich immer stark und ist gut so. Die Idee mit Autarky finde ich gut, allerdings würde ich Ihnen kein Handels-Penalty verpassen.


    Believers:
    - -25% research reduction seems like a good penalty. (not because RELIJIUS PEPLE AR DUMB, but because they have a very careful approach to science and its potential for oppression and jeopardy to the human race. Miriam and her people no Luddites, Luddites don’t travel in starships to other stars.)
    Die Believer sind sowieso bereits grundsätzlich am "abnippeln". Ein Forschungsmalus von 25% wäre deren sichere Fahrkarte ins Aus. Ich finde es gut wie es ist.


    Morganites:
    - Unsure, probably some base upkeep penalty (all those luxuries).
    Die Umsetzung ist sehr gut und passend.


    Spartans:
    - Slower industry?
    - Perhaps more expensive military upkeep? (got to keep those elite troops well-paid, properly armed and fed)
    Neee! Das einzig wirklich gute ist die Kommando-Promotion; da müssen wir die Verteidigung-Bombardierung von 5% auf 1% runterschrauben. Sonst holzen die in null-komma-nix sämtliche Deff-Boni weg.



    Peacekeepers:
    - A extra distance penalty to base upkeep? (simulates corruption and bureocracy)
    Kann er verkraften; Er hat schon krass gute Eigenschaften.



    University:
    - Extra drones, of course.
    Nein, ich finde das ist gut so wie es ist.



    Zu den SMAX-Fraktionen habe ich keine wirkliche Meinung, da ich sie erst mit Civ4-Planetfall kennen lernte.

  8. #8
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Sky, sorry wenn ich dich nötige deine Meinung zu äußern, das mache ich ja nicht ohne Grund...Ich möchte keinen Mod ala every bodies Darling machen, es soll sich alles schon in einen rahmen bewegen den ich mit vorstelle, aber wenn nur ich meine Vorstellungen verarbeite wäre das zum einen dumm da ich auch nur eine begrenzte Sichtweise auf Dinge habe, zu einigen Sachen sogar gar keine, auf der anderen Seite würde ich mich an Ideen berauben wenn ich von vornherein gleich alles abschmetter was ich nicht gut finde bzw mich nicht damit auseinander setzte! Deswegen möchte ich mehrere Meinungen hören... Ich möchte CoC besser machen, und dafür Bedarf es auch fremder Sichtweisen auf gleiche Dinge.
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  9. #9
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Zitat Zitat von Monaldinio Beitrag anzeigen
    Sky, sorry wenn ich dich nötige deine Meinung zu äußern, das mache ich ja nicht ohne Grund...Ich möchte keinen Mod ala every bodies Darling machen, es soll sich alles schon in einen rahmen bewegen den ich mit vorstelle, aber wenn nur ich meine Vorstellungen verarbeite wäre das zum einen dumm da ich auch nur eine begrenzte Sichtweise auf Dinge habe, zu einigen Sachen sogar gar keine, auf der anderen Seite würde ich mich an Ideen berauben wenn ich von vornherein gleich alles abschmetter was ich nicht gut finde bzw mich nicht damit auseinander setzte! Deswegen möchte ich mehrere Meinungen hören... Ich möchte CoC besser machen, und dafür Bedarf es auch fremder Sichtweisen auf gleiche Dinge.
    Das ist gar kein Problem. Immerhin bist Du der Modder und kannst am ehesten wissen, was man (Du) leicht umsetzen kann(st). Was kann es da Schöneres geben, als wenn ich als Nutznießer des Ganzen auch noch meine Meinung äußern soll/kann.

  10. #10
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    aprospros:
    Es ist schwierig die Technologienamen der Epoche zuzuordnen. Speziell ab dem midgame, wo ich im Auge behalten möchte, was meine Konkurrenten erforschen, suche ich mir oft einen "Wolf". In SMAC gab es so wunderbare Kürzel vor dem Technamen: E1, F3, K2 o.s.ä.; damit wäre die Zuordnung mit einem Schlag viel einfacher.

  11. #11
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Das mit den E3 ect. wäre kein Problem...wenn da nicht der Aufwand wäre, denn wenn...müsste man das schon richtig machen.
    Man müsste/bräuchte eine Techübersicht/Plan für den Spieler...
    Ich habe zwar eine Exel Tabelle angelegt in der fast alle Techs eingetragen sind...aber auch nur fast alle...und einige Techs habe ich auch schon
    mal hin und her geschoben sodass die Tabelle/der Plan nicht mehr aktuell ist...
    Worauf ich hinaus will, damit man wirklich die Techs des Gegener verfolgen kann, müsste man erst die Tabelle updaten...was nur ne Fleißsache ist.
    Und dann kommt die zweite Fleißsache...die Position der Techs (Z.B. E3) auf die Technamen in der TechTextInfo übertragen...
    Am Ende würde im TechAdvisor bzw im InGameTechbaum folgendes stehen...E3 - Fusion Power...oder Fusion Power - E3... Wie man es lieber mag.
    Ich glaube man bräuchte doch nicht zwangsläufig die Exeltabelle, der Spieler kann sich ja im InGameTechbaum orientieren...


    Nochmal kurz zum Öl zurück, ich möchte die Resi ungern löschen...aber Slaughter hat irgendwo schon recht, es dürfte kein Öl auf Chiron geben, fragt sich nur...was draus machen?!?!
    Du hast dich gefragt mit was die Fahrzeuge fahren, bei SMAC war es so das es von Anfang an Energiezellen gab...und je besser diese wurden, um so mehr Reichweite + Power hatten die Fahrzeuge/Truppen.
    Man konnte immer nur eine Zelle verbauen...wobei die unterschiedlichen Zelle unterschiedlich viel gekostet haben.
    Mir kam in den Sinn, man könnte allen Fahrzeugen/Truppen eine Basisbewegung von 1 geben...und dann eine Beförderungsgruppe schaffen (Energiezellen wie z.B. Fuel Nanocells) die Schrittweise +1 Bewegung +10% Stärke geben. Bsp.:
    Energiezelle A +1 Bewegung
    Enegiezelle B +1 Bewegung +10% Stärke
    Energiezelle C +2 Bewegung +10% Stärke
    Energiezelle D +2 Bewegung 20% Stärke

    Das dumme ist, man hat in den PromotionInfos aber nicht die Möglichkeit, Beförderungen gegenseitig auszuschließen, es könnte theoretisch der Fall eintreten das der Spieler alle seine Beföredungspunkte in die unterschiedlichen EnergiezellenUpgrades steckt, sodass eine Einheit theoretisch Energiezelle A, B, C haben könnte und damit am Ende +5 bewegung +50% Stärke! Was aber nicht in meinen Sinne ist, man sollte schon nur eine Energiezelle in eine Einheit "verbauen" können. In unseren Fall wäre es eine Beförderung.
    Man hat aber die Möglichkeit, das Energiezelle B, die Energiezelle A, als Vorraussetzung bedarf...aber wie sieht das optisch aus, wenn man auf eine Einheit klickt und da steht in der Beförderungsliste: Energiezelle A, B,C...
    Man könnte sich einer Krücke bedienen...und zwar könnte man die Tech, die die Energiezelle A freischalltet, mit der nächst besseren Tech die die nächste Stufe der Energiezellen freischaltet, veralten lassen...dann würde es theoretisch nur eine verbaubare Energiezelle geben...was aber auch doof ist. Am liebsten wäre mir, das man an die Beförderungen benötigte Beförderungspunkte koppeln könnte! Also das die schlechteste Energiezelle nur 1XP benötigt...die beste z.B 4Xp...

    Edit: Ich hätte ne kleine Testversion in der ich den Fungus und Hybridwald geändert habe... Vielleicht hast du mal Zeit zu Testen da ich meine freie Zeit ins modden stecke.

    3. It’s a pity there’s no atrocities on the game so far, I loved how they encouraged you to be UTTER RUTHLESS fighting the aliens in SMAX. Human x Human and Alien x Alien wars were totally ruthless, with casual use of nerve gas pods, penalty-less base razing and large falls of population occurring at human-alien city transitions. Talk about total war!
    Was zum Geier ist eine atrocities....

    Edit Edit: Die Einheit mit der du nichts anzufangen weißt, die aber gut aussieht, das ist auch so ein problem! Ich hatte sie als Scout mit Kamfpboni gegen Infa. konzipiert...so wie in einen Film wo so eine AstronautenCrew auf dem Mars abgestürzt ist und auch so eine Drohne dabei ist, die dann das eine oder andere Mitglied bei seite schafft. Cooles teil diese Drohne... War das Red Planet?!?!
    Geändert von Monaldinio (19. September 2012 um 14:04 Uhr)
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  12. #12
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Berlin
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    Der Ingame-Techbaum reicht völlig.
    Da ich fleißig spioniere wird angezeigt, was die KI erforscht. Man kann auch den von SMAC bekannten Buchstabenschlüssel weglassen. Es würde bereits enorm helfen, wenn neben dem Tech-Namen die Spalte im Techbaum stehen würde: Ob als Buchstabe, Zahl auf (römisch, arabisch) ist ja egal. Wenn es bei der Umsetzung nur um fleiß geht, kann ich dass auch hinzufügen!


    Wenn Du die Ress Oil drin lassen willst, wäre es am einfachsten es in etwas umzunennen was in die Story passt: Oil from Chiron oder Chiron Nutella oder Spice oder Slug oder was Dir auch einfällt.
    Strategisch spielt es ja leider keine Rolle.


    Die Reaktoren in SMAC sind mir wohl bekannt, allerdings war das ein Bereich von SMAC, der mir inzwischen nur bedingt gefällt: Bei U-Booten ab der Hunter-Klasse und Cruisern kann ich mir Reaktoren vorstellen, aber mal im ernst, ein Rover fährt doch nicht mit einem Atom-Reaktor unter der Motorhaube... Verstehe mich bitte richtig ich stehe auf SMAC, es war seiner Zeit weit voraus. Nichtsdestotrotz müssen wir kein 1zu1-Remake basteln, vor allem nicht, wenn es besser geht und storymäßig müssen die Schiffbrüchigen auch erst einmal an ausreichend spaltbares Material kommen. Insofern halte ich z.B. einen improvisiert zusammengeschraubten Dieselmotor der mit Ölresten gemixt-mit-dem-was-man-so-findet-und-anbaut läuft realistischer.


    Ich denke, ich weiß, wo Du das Umsetzen Deiner Reaktor-Idee "abkupfern" kannst!

    Bei PAE gibt es eine Prunkrüstung (Edle Rüstung / Noble Armor) die man kaufen kann, sofern ein bestimmte Ressource ("Messing") zur Verfügung steht.

    Das "Ersetzen" von Ausrüstung kannst Du bei "Fall from Heaven 2" abgucken. Dort werden Einheiten mit besseren Metallwaffen ausgerüstet sobald sie zur Verfügung stehen und sie eine Stadt betreten: Zuerst Bronzewaffen, dann werde diese durch Eisenwaffen ersetzt, die wiederum Mithrilwaffen weichen.

    Wenn Du allerdings Lust hast, Einheiten mit allerlei Zeug auszurüsten, wie zum Beispiel:
    Reaktoren 1-4, Schilde, Waffen, Sonder-Equipment-A bis X; dann schau Dir mal...
    Achtung Spoiler:
    ...die Modmod Master of Mana an:
    http://www.masterofmana.com/phpBB3/v...1f0c0dd5936760
    Dort kann man Einheiten ab lvl4 mit Ausrüstung (Gear) versehen. Es gibt folgende Kategorien: Rüstung, Waffen, Ausrüstung, Tränke. Pro Kategorie kann man nur einen Gegenstand haben, also nur eine Rüstung, Waffe etc.
    Zweihandwaffen blockieren zusätzlich den Ausrüstungs-Slot (z.B. Schild). Wählt man eine andere Ausrüstung wird die alte ersetzt. Mit diesem Handwerkszeug haben wir dann sicher eine endlose Spielwiese!
    Geändert von Skyvaheri (19. September 2012 um 15:00 Uhr)

  13. #13
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Sky, ich habe vor "increase Flowering Counter" auch zu verschieben...auf Field Modulation, was sagst du?!?! Ich glaube das könnte sich pos. auswirken das der Blütenzähler nicht so schnellhoch geht...

    Vielleicht würde ich auch den Cult auf Centauri Empathy setzen....und Voice of the planet auf Centauri Meditation...da ja nun Spread the voice of the Planet zwei nach vorne gegangen ist...

    EDIT: Edeweiteren würde ich Dcrease Flowering Counter von Moemntan -8 auf -16 setzen da es ja nun auch mehr Fraktionen gibt und sich meiner Beobachtung nach, wenn dafür gevoted wurde, der Blütenzähler nur min. nach verringert...
    Geändert von Monaldinio (20. September 2012 um 18:16 Uhr)
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

  14. #14
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Skyvaheri
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    Zitat Zitat von Monaldinio Beitrag anzeigen
    Sky, ich habe vor

    [1]"increase Flowering Counter" auch zu verschieben...auf Field Modulation, was sagst du?!?! Ich glaube das könnte sich pos. auswirken das der Blütenzähler nicht so schnellhoch geht...

    [2]Vielleicht würde ich auch den Cult auf Centauri Empathy setzen....und
    [3]Voice of the planet auf Centauri Meditation...
    [4]da ja nun Spread the voice of the Planet zwei nach vorne gegangen ist...

    [5]EDIT: Edeweiteren würde ich Dcrease Flowering Counter von Moemntan -8 auf -16 setzen da es ja nun auch mehr Fraktionen gibt und sich meiner Beobachtung nach, wenn dafür gevoted wurde, der Blütenzähler nur min. nach verringert...
    Zu 1+4+5: Der Anstieg des Flowering Counter hat mich bislang nicht wirklich gestört.
    Field Modulation ist recht weit hinten, kann ich mir prinzipiell gut vorstellen. Entscheidend ist, wann Das Concordat anfängt einen zu Rat bilden und was bis Field Modulation alternativ für den Rat zu entscheiden ist. Wenn Du also Spread the Voice zwei nach vorne (?) verlagern willst, schätze ich, dass Voice-of-Planet extrem verbreitet wird?!

    Spread the Voice muss wenn dann 2 nach hinten. (zu Affinity-Gen)
    Was mir gerade beim Nachschauen auffällt:
    Achtung Spoiler:
    Bild


    zu 2+3:
    Man muss sich bewusst machen, dass die Erdlinge auf Chiron notlanden und an erster Stelle das Überleben steht. Selbst Dierdre wird sich erst nachdem das Überleben gesichert ist wieder bekannte Denkuster wie CO², Kohlenmonoxide oder Treibhausgase leisten können. Bis die Stimme des Planeten empfangen wird und nicht als komischer Traum abgestempelt wird, muss etwas Zeit vergehen. Die gesamte Menschheit ist konditioniert der Wissenschaft oder an Gott zu glauben. Eine Kommunikation mit dem Planeten für möglich zu halten ist vollkommen undenkbar (mit ausnahme einiger weniger Schamanen , die allerdings kaum bei der Expedition dabei sein werden). So ist es vollkommen logisch, dass als erstes Edenism begründbar sein muss, danach Homo Superior und Askese. Die für terranische denkweise abgefahrenen Stimme des Planeten zu lauschen darf maximal zeitgleich zu den beiden letztgenannten erfolgen. Sie muss erst durch eine Phase von Unwirklichkeit ("Kann ich wirklich mit dem Planeten reden") sowie Hohn und Spott: "Das ist Blasphemie!!!" oder "Was haben die denn fürn Zeug geraucht? - Eindeutig zu viele Fungi - viel zu viele... - die wachsen ja auch überall." - "Machen sie sich keine Gedanken; es ist vollkommen klar dass die vielen Fungi-dämpfe auf Ihren Körper eine halluzinogene Wirkung haben... ...Nur mal angenommen, sie hätten recht und der Planet spreche wirklich zu Ihnen - Lach - warum, meinen sie hat er ausgerechnet Sie ausgewählt?... ... hier nehmen sie diese Tabletten, die werden Ihnen helfen..."

    Ich stehe zu dem, was ich bereits geschrieben habe:
    Zitat Zitat von Skyvaheri Beitrag anzeigen
    [...]
    Voice of Planet ist grundsätzlich die erste erforschte Religion. Wenn dann auch noch "The-Concordat" sehr früh errichtet wird und alle Concordat-Mitglieder bei jeder Sitzung einen Acolyten erhalten ist die Dominanz nicht aufzuhalten.

    Mögliche Gegenmaßnahmen:
    Entdeckung von Voice of Planet eins nach hinten verlagern (zu Centauri-Empathy).
    "Spread-the-Voice-of-Planet" zwei nach hinten (zu Affinity-Gen)
    Das sollte ausreichen.
    Ich kann mir aber Deine Vorschläge 2+3 anders herum gut vorstellen: Den Cult auf Meditation zu setzen. Dann hätte er auch eine Chance die Voice zu begründen, denn die Voice gehört m.E. auf Empathy.

    Aber lass es uns im Zweifel ausprobieren.
    Angehängte Grafiken Angehängte Grafiken
    Geändert von Skyvaheri (22. September 2012 um 01:23 Uhr)

  15. #15
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Monaldinio
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    Spread the Voice muss wenn dann 2 nach hinten. (zu Affinity-Gen)
    Da habe ich es auch hingeschoben, hab mich falsch ausgedrückt...wir wollten die Ausbreitung ja verlangsamen, nicht noch beschleunigen!

    Entdeckung von Voice of Planet eins nach hinten verlagern (zu Centauri-Empathy).
    So ist es auch schon gemacht worden, alles andere war nur eine weitere Überlegung...

    .Den Cult auf Meditation zu setzen
    Da ist er augenblicklich. Dein Argument das er so VoP gründen könnte, leuchtet ein.


    Der Rat des Concordat wird gebilded, sobald es zwei mitgleider hat...


    Homo Superior möchte ich lassen wo es ist...
    VoP hat schon eine neue Position...
    Askese...entweder da lassen wo es ist...oder einen nach hinten...aber wo hin?!?!
    Edeism...wüsste nicht was besser passen würde als Terraforming?!
    Geändert von Monaldinio (22. September 2012 um 11:26 Uhr)
    Conflict on Chiron - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri vs. Call to Power!

    Neu Version Conflict on Chiron v3.4 BETA - 16.01.16

    Patch1 - 07.04.16

    Die deutschen Sounds und Wunderfilme sind bereits in der MainFile integriert!
    Ihr könnt sofort loslegen.

    Über Feedback würde ich mich freuen...

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