[RWL] Komplexe Produktionsketten

[raystuttgart]

Hallo Leute,

ich habe schon lange mit dem Gedanken gespielt komplexe Produktionsketten einzuführen, hatte aber irgendwie davor immer einen heiden Respekt (vorallem wegen KI).
Da ich jetzt gerade aber einen Haufen Zeit habe um Code zu prüfen und technische Konzepte zu erstellen, nehme ich mich des Themas doch wieder an.

--------------------------

Komplex heisst, es gibt folgende Grundlogikelemente, die beliebig kombiniert werden können.

A) Ware X UND Ware Y -> Ware Z
oder
B) Ware X -> Ware Y UND Ware Z
oder
C) Ware X ODER Ware Y -> Ware Z
oder
D) Ware X -> Ware Y ODER Ware Z

--------------------------

Folgende komplexe Produktionsketten kann ich mir vorstellen:

1) Eisen-Waren

Alt:
Eisenerz -> Werkzeuge -> Waffen

Neu:
Eisenerz -> Eisen -> Werkzeuge ODER Waffen ODER Kanonen

2) Viehwirtschaft

Rinder -> Nahrung UND Rinderhäute
Rinderhäute -> Lederwaren

Schafe -> Nahrung UND Wolle
Wolle -> Wollkleidung

3) Jagd

Jagdwild -> Nahrung UND Felle

4) Schmuck

Silber UND Gold -> Schmuck

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Technisches:

Grundlage der ganze Geschichte sind die ModComps "Multiple Yields Consumed" und "Multiple Yields Produced".

--------------------------

Anmerkungen:

Für 1) brauche ich keine neue Technik. Die Frage ist nur ob die KI damit klar kommt.

Für 2) und 3) hätte ich Konzepte, die das ganze mittels Einheit "simulieren" könnten:

-> Vieh-Herden
-> Jagdtrupp

Bei 4) bin ich mir gar nicht sicher, ob es mir gefällt.

--------------------------

Fazit:

Von allen Konzepten, die sich im Moment bei mir in "technischer" Prüfung befinden, ist dieses dasjenige mit der geringsten Umsetzungswahrscheinlichkeit, da

A) Verdammt viel Aufwand
B) Ersatzkonzepte bestehen

--------------------------

Feedback ?
Weiter Ideen für komplexe Produktionsketten ?

[Androrc]

For C in my opinion it would be better to have different professions for each possibility, but working in the same building. For instance, in the mod I am working, there are two professions which work in the Weaver's House/etc. buildings: the Wool Weaver and the Cotton Weaver, each produces Cloth from Wool and Cotton, respectively. This modcomp allows more than one profession per building: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=16187

For D, the same can be done, but unfortunately, the interface isn't very kind to two different yields being produced in the same building (perhaps the "Multiple Yields Consumed and Multiple Yields Produced fixes this?)

[KJ_Jansson]

For C in my opinion it would be better to have different professions for each possibility, but working in the same building. For instance, in the mod I am working, there are two professions which work in the Weaver's House/etc. buildings: the Wool Weaver and the Cotton Weaver, each produces Cloth from Wool and Cotton, respectively. This modcomp allows more than one profession per building: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=16187

For D, the same can be done, but unfortunately, the interface isn't very kind to two different yields being produced in the same building (perhaps the "Multiple Yields Consumed and Multiple Yields Produced fixes this?)

Oi, André! Fico feliz em vê-lo no fórum alemão. Eu apresento meu trabalho sobre este fórum, também.

I like very much your idea to combine two professions (Wool Weaver and the Cotton Weaver) in one building. In this case there is no need for the construction of similar buildings.

What you mean here

but unfortunately, the interface isn't very kind to two different yields being produced in the same building

[Androrc]

Oi, André! Fico feliz em vê-lo no fórum alemão. Eu apresento meu trabalho sobre este fórum, também.

Está aprendendo português?

I like very much your idea to combine two professions (Wool Weaver and the Cotton Weaver) in one building. In this case there is no need for the construction of similar buildings.

Yes, that is very much the intent. Unfortunately this only alleviates the city interface problem with the number of buildings, and does not solve it, like we discussed in a thread in CivFanatics some months ago. Thinking back of the options presented then, I think the best one would be to have a scrollable city interface.

What you mean here

I mean that if a building produces two different yields, the icon of the two yields will appear on top of one another in the building interface, and the building text is a bit confusing as well. I don't know if Kailric's mod changes this.

[raystuttgart]

Eu fallo un poquinho português tambien.

I lived in Brazil for about 5 months.
But it is a long time ago.
Reading is easier than writing / speaking.

[raystuttgart]

Thinking back of the options presented then, I think the best one would be to have a scrollable city interface.

I do not think the players will like that idea.

I also think:

All buildings should be visible with one look.

The only thing I can imagine:
Make buildings a little smaller and include one new row.
However with this solution the number of ne buildings is very limited.

[KJ_Jansson]

Está aprendendo português?

Nenhum. Falo um pouco brasileiro, porce que seis meses foi trabalhou no Brasil.

Yes, that is very much the intent. Unfortunately this only alleviates the city interface problem with the number of buildings, and does not solve it, like we discussed in a thread in CivFanatics some months ago. Thinking back of the options presented then, I think the best one would be to have a scrollable city interface.

I agree, "a scrollable city interface" is one of solutions.

The second solution could be the specialization of cities:
- an usual city as now,
- city-monastery,
- city-castle,
- city-harbour.

Each of such cities could have a different set of buildings. For instance, impossible to build Armory or Shipyard in city-monastery, etc.

I mean that if a building produces two different yields, the icon of the two yields will appear on top of one another in the building interface, and the building text is a bit confusing as well. I don't know if Kailric's mod changes this.

I will finish with updated version of "1492: Gold Rush" and will check this problem.

Your "Multiple Professions per Building" Modcomp is a very interesting because also permit to descrease a number of city buildings.

[KJ_Jansson]

I mean that if a building produces two different yields, the icon of the two yields will appear on top of one another in the building interface, and the building text is a bit confusing as well. I don't know if Kailric's mod changes this.

OK, I can give some comments.

1. Your "Multiple Professions per Building Modcomp" is working as you described.

The general scheme is

Yield X (Ore) + Master Blacksmith ==> Yield Y (Tools)
Yield Y (Tools) + Master Gunsmith ==> Yield Z (Guns)

Both units are working in ONE BUILDING (Blacksmith House)

Here the screen:



If possible, I'd like to ask about small improvement. To be very nice if we could just "drag unit" in the building and similar popup screen gives us a choose between two professions: Master Blacksmith or Master Gunsmith. These variants will correspond to possibility produce Tools (Master Blacksmith) or Guns (Master Gunsmith).

The current method is vary tricky and I re-read your comments number of times before understand how to send Master Gunsmith in Blacksmith House to produce Guns.

2. Second comments about icons.

Now we can produce two yields (Tools and Guns) in one building (Blacksmith House).

However, Blacksmith House icon shows only one icon (Tools), see the screen.

I checked out where the program takes this icon. Result on screen:



CIV4YieldInfos.xml

			<Icon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,5,15</Icon>

Of course, I can edit this icon, but in such case all Tools icons will be changed.

Possible solution:

- The program really takes this icons from the CIV4YieldInfos.xml file.
- But all information that we see on City screen is formed by CvMainInterface.py.
- If somebody could find the place inside this Python file where the program read information about this icon AND if possible to write a DUFFERENT path to different file with new icon, the problem will be solved.

Who can help?

I could create combined icons and everybody will see that in this building two different products could be made.

[Androrc]

OK, I can give some comments.

1. Your "Multiple Professions per Building Modcomp" is working as you described.

The general scheme is

Yield X (Ore) + Master Blacksmith ==> Yield Y (Tools)
Yield Y (Tools) + Master Gunsmith ==> Yield Z (Guns)

Both units are working in ONE BUILDING (Blacksmith House)

Here the screen:



If possible, I'd like to ask about small improvement. To be very nice if we could just "drag unit" in the building and similar popup screen gives us a choose between two professions: Master Blacksmith or Master Gunsmith. These variants will correspond to possibility produce Tools (Master Blacksmith) or Guns (Master Gunsmith).

The current method is vary tricky and I re-read your comments number of times before understand how to send Master Gunsmith in Blacksmith House to produce Guns.

That is a good idea. When I first wrote the code for Multiple Professions per Building, dealing with popups was beyond what I could do, but I think I can do this now. I'll try to make it so that, if there is more than one profession that can produce in a building, the popup appears after dragging the citizen there.

2. Second comments about icons.

Now we can produce two yields (Tools and Guns) in one building (Blacksmith House).

However, Blacksmith House icon shows only one icon (Tools), see the screen.

I checked out where the program takes this icon. Result on screen:



CIV4YieldInfos.xml

			<Icon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,5,15</Icon>

Of course, I can edit this icon, but in such case all Tools icons will be changed.

Possible solution:

- The program really takes this icons from the CIV4YieldInfos.xml file.
- But all information that we see on City screen is formed by CvMainInterface.py.
- If somebody could find the place inside this Python file where the program read information about this icon AND if possible to write a DUFFERENT path to different file with new icon, the problem will be solved.

Who can help?

I could create combined icons and everybody will see that in this building two different products could be made.

Checking the code now, this would be easy to do it as you wish. The line in CvMainInterface.py that assigns the icon is this one:

									screen.addDDSGFC(szName, gc.getYieldInfo(iYield).getIcon(), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][0] + (STACK_BAR_HEIGHT / 2), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][1] + BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] - (BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] / 6) + STACK_BAR_HEIGHT, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, WidgetTypes.WIDGET_HELP_YIELD, iYield, -1)

I can change it to get the icon from the BuildingInfo instead; I've checked CvInfos.cpp and there seem to be no major complications in bringing the ::getIcon function from YieldInfo to BuildingInfo.

However, it would be better if the indication of each yield being produced was kept somehow... Perhaps by putting the Guns production indicator below the Tools one.

[KJ_Jansson]

However, it would be better if the indication of each yield being produced was kept somehow... Perhaps by putting the Guns production indicator below the Tools one.

But on the combined icon you can see both Tools and Guns that could be produced in your Blacksmith House. One of possible variants here:

[Androrc]

But on the combined icon you can see both Tools and Guns that could be produced in your Blacksmith House. One of possible variants here:

Yes, but what I mean is that the number beside the icon would no longer indicate the amount of that yield being produced... although that's still better than how it is right now

[KJ_Jansson]

Yes, but what I mean is that the number beside the icon would no longer indicate the amount of that yield being produced... although that's still better than how it is right now

Done!

Please, look the screen:



Red lined button near Blacksmith House is a NEW and SEPARATED icon. I made it as a combination of icons 1 (Tools) and 2 (Guns). Of course, this icon can easily replaced by any other.

Moreover, now all icons that are blue-lined are also can be replaced.

SDK+Python+xml solution I'll publish very soon.

[KJ_Jansson]

Here the "icon" solution.

This section was edited in CvMainInterface.py:

								if (CityBuilding != -1):
									screen.show("ProductionBox" + str(iSpecialBuildingType))
									szName = "YieldOutPutIcon" + str(iYield)
								#	screen.addDDSGFC(szName, gc.getYieldInfo(iYield).getIcon(), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][0] + (STACK_BAR_HEIGHT / 2), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][1] + BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] - (BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] / 6) + STACK_BAR_HEIGHT, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, WidgetTypes.WIDGET_HELP_YIELD, iYield, -1)  #closed by KJ Jansson
									screen.addDDSGFC(szName, gc.getYieldInfo(iYield).getCombiIcon(), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][0] + (STACK_BAR_HEIGHT / 2), BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][1] + BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] - (BUILDING_GRID[iSpecialBuildingType][2] / 6) + STACK_BAR_HEIGHT, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, STACK_BAR_HEIGHT * 5 / 2, WidgetTypes.WIDGET_HELP_YIELD, iYield, -1)

Upper line was closed, but in the second line

getIcon()

was exchanged on

getCombiIcon()

Thus, I added a new type of icons - CombiIcon, that is a combination of two or even more icons of different goods.

The corresponding changes in SDK files are marked as

// KJ Jansson addon for Multiple Professions per Building modcomp by Androrc the Orc START

and

// KJ Jansson addon for Multiple Professions per Building modcomp by Androrc the Orc END

Thus, for Cigars we have now two similar line in CIV4YieldInfos.xml:

YIELD_CIGARS

			<Icon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,4,15</Icon>
			<CombiIcon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,4,15</CombiIcon>

The <Icon> from the first line is used as usually, for instance on bottom line of goods.

The <CombiIcon> from the second line is used only as icon under the city building.

As you see, for Cigars both line are the same, therefore the icons for Cigars as goods (bottom line) and as icon under Tobacconist House are the same, too.

A situation is different for Tools and Guns.

For YIELD_TOOLS

			<Icon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,5,15</Icon>			
			<CombiIcon>Art/Interface/Buttons/Combi_Icon.dds</CombiIcon>

For YIELD_MUSKETS

			<Icon>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,6,15</Icon>
			<CombiIcon>Art/Interface/Buttons/Combi_Icon.dds</CombiIcon>

<Icon> is an usual icon from Unit_Resource_Colonization_Atlas.dds,
but <CombiIcon> is a new icon where we can see both Tools and Guns.
This is a very draft icon, of course.

Thus, the problem with icon in Multiple Professions per Building modcomp is fixed.

However, there is only one small question. I show it on the screen.



As you see, the Blacksmith Master produces Tools, Gunsmith Master produces Guns. However on popup screen we see only "Tools".

Of course, it's not critical, but if we could fix icon, I guess we could correct this Python mistake, too.

If somebody know, please, don't hesitate to show a solution. Thank you in advance.

[KJ_Jansson]

Im Moment, gibt es ja einige Diskussionen zu dem Thema "Komplexe Produktionsketten" zwischen Androrc, KJ_Jansson und mir.

We continue our discussion here.

Today Androrc the Orc presented the updated 1.1 version of Multiple Professions per Building Modcomp.


Added:

How you plan organize Cotton and Wool processing?

1.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver => Cloth
Yield_Wool + Weaver => Cloth

2.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver_Cotton => Cloth
Yield_Wool + Weaver_Wool => Cloth

3.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver_Cotton => Cloth 1
Yield_Wool + Weaver_Wool => Cloth 2

or 4?

[raystuttgart]

How you plan organize Cotton and Wool processing?

That is the thing I am not sure about right now.

1.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver => Cloth
Yield_Wool + Weaver => Cloth

Would be a good solution !

Problem is:

It is not:
Cotton AND Wool => Cloth

It must be:
Cotton OR Wool => Cloth

2.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver_Cotton => Cloth
Yield_Wool + Weaver_Wool => Cloth

The second profession would be hard to understand.
Do not like that very much.

3.
Yield_Cotton + Weaver_Cotton => Cloth 1
Yield_Wool + Weaver_Wool => Cloth 2

More or less the idea I had first.
I was thinking about that:

Yield_Cotton + Weaver => Cloth
Yield_Wool + Wool_Cloth_Maker => Wool_Clothes

Similar with Fur and Cow-Leather:

Yield_Fur + Fur-Trader -> Fur-Coats
Yield_Leather + Leather-Trader -> Leather Coats (or Leather Boots)

But I wanted to have it with an extra buildings.

So I haven't decided yet what it is going to be finally.
(That is why I did not ask you to integrate icons for "Wool Clothes" and "Leather Coats / Leather Boots" in the Gamefonts.)

If I would get space for 2 more buildings in city-screen, then I will go with solution 3.

Otherwise I will just see.