Rise of the Dictators 2

[Historical Atze]

You haven't met AiC so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But beware, he's coming back right now .

[McMonkey]

I remember AiC from when I first started playing here. Why should I/we beware?

By the way, I am playing my turn now.

[McMonkey]

2439 gold paid into the US Federal bank Current German debt now = 0 gold

[Jerec]

64,110 ist eindeutig eine Airbase in Frankreich, ich werde die Bomber beim nächsten Zug wieder einbauen, damit wir nicht nochmal wiederholen müssen

My apologies, I should have quoted the rules instead of simply calling it a "Nationalist airbase." The rules say that any unit within 2 squares of Spain is fair game. The Spanish-French border is defined either by the bunker on 65,111, or the "railroad" on 63,113. Either way, that airbase was still within 2 squares of the border. So the attack was legal. McMonkey, am I correctly interpreting the rules here?

[McMonkey]

@Jerec
I'm afraid not. The Franco-Spanish border is clearly marked by the border post ("railroad") on square 63,113. The airbase is clearly in France!!! It is inconceivable that the Nationalists would attack French airfield on French territory, this would give France a clear cause for war against Nationalist Spain! I think you have enough problems already without a war with France

The rule about the two spaces around Spain was designed around the shipping and also included aircraft out at sea. I did not say not to attack units on French or Portuguese soil as I thought that was obviously a no no! I should have hired a team of lawyers to check the rules for me

As an act of good will the Republicans should allow the Nationalist fighters that attacked those bombers (which have now been reincarnated) to return to their bases unmolested. We will say they just got lost in dense cloud and no incident ever happened!

Judge McMonkey has spoken. His words are backed by AK47!

[Jerec]

And so ends the largest Nationalist campaign yet.

Congratulations Alcibaides, you have just won the Spanish Civil War. Or at least guarenteed eventual victory, with massive Russian reinforcements on the way and no way for me to stop them.

Of course, that doesn't mean I won't fight you tooth and nail for the rest of Spain...

2 Republican Fighters shot down, 1 heroic Nationalist fighter ran out of fuel.

2 Republican bombers shot down, 1 by Madrid and 1 by Valencia.

Madrid retaken, 1 Republican Infantry destroyed beside the city and 1 Infantry lost.

1 Republican Infantry destroyed between Valencia and Barcelona. Those Italian tanks are good for something after all!



Traders removed from Britain. When did Finland ever offend the Prime Minister?

2 American ships filled with military supplies for the Republicans caught within 2 squares of Spanish shores.

Btw McMonkey, are bombers allowed to switch hands mid-air as long as they are within 2 squares of the recipient's city?

As an act of good will the Republicans should allow the Nationalist fighters that attacked those bombers (which have now been reincarnated) to return to their bases unmolested. We will say they just got lost in dense cloud and no incident ever happened!

Cheat mode used to reincarnate the units involved in the attack that never happened.

[McMonkey]

Bombers can swap ownership in flight within two squares of a city but they must then be landed in that city by the nation receiving the unit. Obviously you cannot fly your aircraft into another nations city as it will either be repaired if you are allied or it will attack. The receiving nation cannot take over ownership in mid air and carry on flying, the unit must land first to complete the transaction!!!

America up!

[Alcibaides]

Bombers can swap ownership in flight within two squares of a city

You said 1 square a couple days ago. Which is it? 1 square or 2 squares? I had to reject a couple of British Bombers last turn because they were within 2 squares instead of 1 square of my city.

but they must then be landed in that city by the nation receiving the unit.

In November of 1936, there were about 5 Italian Bombers off the coast of Barcelona, the very same turn about 7 Italian Bombers (now in Dictatorship control) bombed the shite out of Bilbao and the Dictatorhsips captured the city.

I can only asume that the bombers that attacked Bilbao were the very same bombers seen off the coast of Barcelona for the following reasons:

a) Only a couple turns had been played by this time, so I don't think it is possible for the Italians to have got bombers to Spain any earlier.

b) The Dictatorships only start with 3 bombers in Spain and I had already shot one down. So they could not all have been original Dictatorship bombers.

Since the Dictatorships play after the Italians, it makes sense that Italy moved the Bombers into Spain from where they were (off the coast of Barcelona) and then in the same turn Jerec used them to bomb Bilbao.

The timing of this move was very important as I was in the process of rush-buying an anti-aircraft defence system. Things might have turned out a little differently had Jerec landed the bombers on his turn and waited until the next turn to attack Bilbao. He may well have taken the city anyway, but he might have lost 2-4 bombers in the process.

The receiving nation cannot take over ownership in mid air and carry on flying, the unit must land first to complete the transaction!!!

Well that's one way of looking at it. But if I was sending aircraft to help an ally, I would probably send the pilot with the aircraft in the same way as when one sends ground troops in. You don't send the ground troops into a city so they can swap uniforms and weaponry with the local soldiers.

I am not saying your logic is flawed McMonkey, it does make perfect sense, this is just another way of looking at it. Whatever the man with the AK deems appropriate I will comply.

[McMonkey]

This is another point I may not have been clear about or that I have sent out conflicting info for so I apologize if you have been put at a disadvantage in the past. I will go through the house rules/diplomatic rules today and get an updated version together. When you begin a scenario like this it is difficult to foresee all the issues that will crop up!

I see your logic about bombers swapping and I think I have come up with a solution that makes sense:

Bombers that are changing hands must be directly next to the recipient nations city. The recipient than uses the cheat mode at the beginning of their turn to take over ownership and can put the aircraft into action straight away (it is assumed that the crews have swapped between turns). An enemy nation can shoot down these bombers as long as they are flying over the war zone or are within two squares of the war zone if they are out at sea (For example the Republicans could shoot down German Aircraft over Spain that are on their way to the Nationalists without causing a diplomatic incident!)

I will put this in the new house rules update. I think it makes sense and is the simplest solution and it also fits in roughly with what has been going on in the game so far anyway!

I wanted to keep house rules to the minimum so the important ones were easy to remember and there were not translation problems. I will try to make them as precise as possible in the updated file

[McMonkey]

You said 1 square a couple days ago. Which is it? 1 square or 2 squares?

You were quite right. I did say one square and it says the same in the house rules now. Here is the draft of the updated house rules. When finished I will upload it here as a text document and also as the Describe file so the info will be available in the Civiliopedia. I have amended some of the wording to make it clearer, made some minor adjustments and added a few extras to block off future loopholes. Please read through this draft carefully and point out any anomalies or errors before I upload it:

-------------
HOUSE RULES
-------------

- DIPLOMATIC HOUSE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED. IF THERE IS A DISAGREEMENT THE NOMINATED MODERATOR WILL HAVE THE FINAL SAY!

- NO AIR STACKS. IF THIS OCCURS ACCIDENTALLY FIX WITH THE CHEAT MENU AND INFORM OTHER PLAYERS.

- NO ROAD, AIRBASE OR STACKABLE TERRAIN PILLAGING. IRRIGATION AND MINING CAN BE PILLAGED.

- NO SELLING OF FORTIFICATIONS. IF THEY ARE DESTROYED UPON CAPTURING A CITY THEY MUST BE REBUILT IMMEDIATELY (COST 0!)

- NO TRADING WITH ENEMY CITIES. TRADE EMBARGOS MUST BE RESPECTED.

- NO BLACK CLICKING. STACK SIZE CHECKING IS OK.

- NO TECH TRADING ALLOWED. UNITS, CITIES AND MONEY CAN BE TRADED.

- NO GOVERNMENT SWITCHING.

- NO BUILDING OF NEW CITIES, ONLY REFOUNDING OF DESTROYED ONES IS ALLOWED.

- NO SHIP CHAINING OR RE-HOMING OF TRADE UNITS (EXCEPT EVENT GENERATED ONES BELONGING TO USA).

- AFTER CAPTURING A CITY V1 ROCKETS ARE OFTEN PRODUCED. PLEASE SWAP PRODUCTION!

- DO NOT BLOCK WATERWAYS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO YOUR NATION UNLESS YOU ARE AT WAR (IE STRATES OF GIBRALTAR, DARDANELLES ETC...).

- SNEAK ATTACKS ARE ALLOWED.

----------------------
GLOSSARY OF TERMS:
----------------------

CASUS BELLI: A valid pretext for a decloration of war. Clear and sustained violation of territory can be used as a Casus Belli. One stray

unit is not an excuse as long as it is withdrawn promptly. Once a nation gets a Casus Belli they must either issue an ultimatum for that must

be responded to the following turn or they can declare war straight away. For example if Germany Invaded Czechoslovakia Britain and France

could declare war straight away or issue an ultimatum for Germany to withdraw on its following turn. If Germany did not comply then they can

declare war on their following turn. A Casus Belli cannot be carried on beyond this point. If a nation does not make use of the Casus Belli

to declare war or issue an ultimatum straight away then the opportunity is lost and they will have to wait for another Casus Belli before

they can declare war. The Democracies will have to decide when to appease Hitler and when to make a stand!

Once you have gone to war with a nation a new Casus Belli is not required. This means that Ceasefires are possible but they can be broken

without a Casus Belli!

@@GERMANY
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

@@USSR
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on the Soviet Union gives Britain and France a Casus Belli.

@@ROMANIA/HUNGARY/BULGARIA
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria act as one nation (IE One cannot go to war while another stays neutral!)

Run as a seperate entity from the other Dictatorships (Finland and Nationalist Spain).

@@FINLAND
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Run as a seperate entity from the other Dictatorships.

@@SPAIN
SPAIN (UNDER NATIONALIST CONTROL - IE AFTER CIVIL WAR)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

Run as a seperate entity from the other Dictatorships.

SPAIN (UNDER REPUBLICAN CONTROL - IE AFTER CIVIL WAR)
----------------------------------------------------------
Must have a Casus Belli to declare war.

The only valid Casus Belli for Republican Spain is the sustained violation of its territory. For example if German troops landed in Spain and

refused to leave immediately. This also appleies to Naval units next to the coast of Spain and repeated violation of Spanish airspace.

Run as a seperate entity from the USSR.

An attack on Republican Spain (once they have one the Civil War) gives America, Britain and France a Casus Belli.

SPANISH CIVIL WAR
--------------------
The Spanish Civil War is like a scenario within a scenario and has its own special rules:

Victory in the Civil War is achieved when one side wipes out the other completely. Once one side has won the war these special rules finish

and players should refer to the Nationalist/Republican controlled rules!

External nations can support either side economically or militarily by gifting money or units via the cheat menu.

External nations cannot intervene directly in Spain until the Civil War is over.

Units landed by sea can only do so within two squares of a friendly port city and they must be transfered on the recieving players following

turn. Air units can only be transfered adjacent to a friendly city and they must be transfered on the recieving players following turn.

Any foreign units within two squares of the Spanish coast (Including the Balearic Islands and the city of Ceuta but not all of Spanish

Morocco!) can be attacked without causing a diplomatic incident. If you don't want your ships sunk or your aircraft shot down then stear

clear of Spain! Ships or aircraft more than two squares from Spain must not be blocked or attacked.

French and Portuguese territory must not be violated by either side!

Foreign powers can hand over units at the airfield on the Balearic Islands as long as the airbase is occupied by the nation they are

supporting in the Civil War.

@@USA
Must have a Casus Belli to declare war until December 1941 (date of Pearl Harbour). After this date it may decleare war without one. The US

can gift units to friendly nations before this date.

An attack on Britain or France is a valid Casus Belli. If Britain or France are the ones who declare war (due to Casus Belli) the USA will

have to wait until Pearl Harbour!

The USA cannot declare war on Britain, Republican France or the Neutrals. The USA can declare war on Vichy France.

America can re-home the event generated trade units which start with no home city.

@@BRITAIN
Must have Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack of Britin gives France a Casus Belli.

Britain may activate its alliance with France when at war.

Allied to France, Belgium and Poland.

@@ITALY
Does not require a Casus Belli to declare war.

If the Allies capture Sicily Germany may occupy any Italian city they wish. The Italian player must co-operate fully and promptly. This does

not mean they need to surrender, but if Germany says it wants to occupy a city then Italy must let it!

The exception to this rule is if Italy changes sides to the Allies, in which case the Germans must take the Italian cities by force.

@@FRANCE
France must have a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on France gives Britain a valid Casus Belli.

France may activate its alliance with Britain when at war.

Allied to Czechoslovakia and Poland.

May sign a military alliance with Romania / Bulgaria / Hungary. A subsequent attack on these nations would give France a Casus Belli.

VICHY FRANCE
--------------
If Germany captures Paris and five other Metropolitan cities the French government must become a puppet state.

If Germany decides to negotiate more lenient terms that is up to them, otherwise the settlement is:

1, Upon the capture of Paris the French must cease resistance.

2, France must hand over control of all Metropolitan French cities bar Limoges, Toulouse, Lyon, Marseilles, Toulon, Nice and Corsica.

3, France must disband all army and air force units in Metropolitan France bar three ground units in each Vichy city.

4, No military units can be built in Metropolitan cities until the Free French clause (see #8).

5, France must resist any Allied attempts to take over Vichy territory in North Africa or the Levant.

6, The French fleet must either hand over its ships to the Germans or sail to Toulon or colonial ports.

7, If Germany wishes to occupy Tunis the French must hand over the city even if this means disbanding of troops homed there!

8, The French will be freed from these constraints if the Allies liberate Casablanca, Algiers and Oran. The Vichy government can either

choose to join the Allied side again or continue to work with Germany.

9, If at this point the Vichy government decide to become the Free French then Germany can occupy the remainder of the Metropolitan cities

(Inc Corsica). The French garrisons must disband immediately. Any ships that are homed to these cities will be lost so try and re-home them quick!

10, It is up to the Allies if they hand back control of any ex-French cities to the Free French. Should cause some realistic tension between De Galle and the Allied leaders!

@@AUSTRIA
Anscluss between Germany and Austria gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

An attack on Austria by Italy gives Britain and France a Casus Belli for war.

@@CZECHOSLOVAKIA
An attack on Czechoslovakia gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

France has a military alliance with must declare war on any country that attacks Czechoslovakia. France will have the option to opt out of supporting Czechoslovakia if Britain decides to appease the Germans.

@@SLOVAKIA
If Germany occupies Czechoslovakia (Prague/Pilsen/Brno) then the Dictatorships can occupy Slovakia without giving France and Britain a Casus
Belli.

@@YUGOSLAVIA
There is no concequence for Germany, Italy, the Dictatorships or the USSR invading Yugoslavia.

@@BALTIC STATES
In the Soviet sphere of influence. The USSR has a free hand in the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

@@ALBANIA
In the Italian sphere of influence. The Italians have a free hand in Albania.

@@GREECE
An attack on Greece gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

Britain can intervene and put troops on Greek territory if it feels that Greece is threatened. This must be declared one turn in advance!

Greek cities cannot be occupied by the British but they can be liberated from foreign aggressors.

@@POLAND
An attack on Poland gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

Britain and France must go to war with Germany if it attacks Poland. Any other country that subsequently attacks Poland can do so without
providing a Casus Belli (IE The USSR or the Dictatorships).

@@TURKEY
Britain and France must go to war with ANY country that attacks Turkey. If this should be the USSR then Britain and France can only negotiate
peace when all Turkish cities are vacated by the enemy (IE cheated back to the Independets) or have been liberated by the Franco-British.

@@NORWAY
An attack on Norway gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

Britain and France can intervene and put troops on Norwegian territory if it feels that Norway is threatened. This must be declared one turn in advance!

Norwegian cities cannot be occupied by the Franco-British but they can be liberated from foreign aggressors.

@@HOLLAND
An attack on Holland gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@BELGIUM
An attack on Belgium gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

If Germany violates Belgian neutrality France and Britain can deploy troops on Belgian territory.

@@DENMARK
An attack on Denmark gives Britain and France a valid Casus Belli to declare war.

@@SWITZERLAND
Switzerland is neutral and must not be attacked!

@@PORTUGAL
Portugal is neutral and must not be attacked!

@@SWEDEN
Sweden is neutral and must not be attacked! This also means foreign traders cannot be attacked on Swedish territory!

[Cobra]

2 American ships filled with military supplies for the Republicans caught within 2 squares of Spanish shores.

One of them was at (39;153). Isn´t this british territory? (This square is contolled by Gibraltar)

[McMonkey]

I'm afraid the rule says that any foreign units within two squares of the Spanish coast can be attacked without causing a diplomatic incident. There is no mention of other nations cities zones of influence overriding this, sorry Cobra

[Cobra]

What about the ships around Gibraltar? Are they in danger, too?

[Civilionaut]

I'm afraid the rule says that any foreign units within two squares of the Spanish coast can be attacked without causing a diplomatic incident. There is no mention of other nations cities zones of influence overriding this, sorry Cobra

McMonkey
from 31,151 to 40,152 is british coast


Radar

[Historical Atze]

Civi, lies die Regeln und wenn du sie nicht verstehst, vertrau McMonkey. Der ist Szenarioersteller und gibt sich redlich Mühe, unparteilich zu sein.